If I were of a Martin Lutherian temperament, I would nail a copy of this to the door of every my-way-or-the-highway church/home/gathering place I know.

... for the joyful image of the monk and the little girl.

I know just where you're coming from here, Gordon. I never had the life-changing revelation, but I arrived at the same conclusion, after coming from the same tradition as you, through more gradual means. It's good to hear that there are others besides me who struggle with this faith I love so dearly!

Good words, RLP: And I'm there also. I really, REALLY connected with your part about "I don't care." I find myself saying that more and more. And think God's OK with it all!

Keep writing - we'll keep reading.

I'm a rising third-year seminary student, and toward the beginning of my second year, we were asked to write a three-page paper entitled "What Unites and Divides the Church?"

In three pages. Yeah.

One of my muddled-together brain-farts in this paper was that I believe every single person in God's creation experiences God differently - that no two of us have an identical experience with the Holy One. And I think because of this, it's very easy for us to fall into the trap of wanting to affirm our own faith and our own experiences by seeking and wanting similarities in others'. I sometimes wonder if we could all (myself most certainly included) strive a little harder to be a little more patient, a little more compassionate, and a little more understanding with the uniqueness of everyone's experience of God, we might find the Table of the One who created us is big enough for us all.

Ha ha! How does that heresy tickle yer fancy?

Gordon, you say that
"And don’t fool yourself. You who practice religious exclusivism quietly in your own neighborhoods are the butterflies that cause the storms on the other side of the world.

You are, to use a phrase I heard from our new president, on the wrong side of history."

But isnt that an exclusive statment in and of itself? There is no place for conservatism and if you dont change your out? Im not angry at your words, I think there is truth to them, but isnt a little more complex than that?

Isnt it better to try to understand and reach outto conservatives? Like Obama and Rick Warren...

Gordon, it's Chuck Nolan.

I'm sure you know of the meetings between the Christian (and Catholic) monk Thomas Merton and the Dalai Lama. They concluded after some conversation that they were trying, and had even succeeded a few times, in contacting the same thing. They were just coming at it from different angles. The goal was the same.

When Merton died in a tragic accident, the Dalai Lama was saddened. Later, when he first visited America, he asked to be taken to the monastery in Kentucky where Merton had lived, and is buried. He knelt at the grave, and offered prayers for his brother. Reading this, I was moved in a similar manner as you describe. That memory still can bring tears.

Chuck,

That's a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing.

Read "The Dignity of Difference" by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks. I'm reading it now and it's an amazing piece about the very thing you mention at the end of this post. Working together, celebrating one another's differences, and, together, seeking to make the world a better place. Thank you for your post.

I have had some experiences like that one of my most recent one was at a local masjid (mosque) watch 1'000 Muslims make salat on a Friday afternoon. I will never be the same and I don't want to be.

I am in that slow phase of challenging my belief and understanding on this matter. It is not coming as a sudden realisation for me - it is a slowly growing challenge to my tenants of faith.
Your piece is "another nail in the coffin" (bad analogy isn't it!!)
Thanks
Janet McKinney

Someone once pointed out to me that, if we both believe in god, then either we both believe in the same god or someone believes that there are 2! If one, then what we are arguing about are god's attributes, which is just a tad presumptuous, neh?

I love reading your blog. Thank you.

I am glad someone of your 'stature' was willing to take this on. I would hate to meet the God that people who are willing to accept this believe in.

I am a pacifist, but sometimes I want to strangle the next person who quotes john 14:6 at me and then acts as if the matter is settled, period.

We all have biases, and they color how we read the Bible. The same Bible that justified slavery is now used to condemn it.

Gordon, my brother, you do such good in the world when you write these pieces about the opening of your faith.

If there is just one person whose heart is unhardened by something that you write, then every word you write after that is a freeroll.

This is Cynthia... not logged in.

I believe that it is very Biblical to recount a story where the Holy Spirit put a finger under your chin and directed your eyes to a thing that reveals the nature of GOD. My understanding is that the scriptures tell me to pay close attention to the moving of the Spirit. Who dares to close eyes to that kind of revelation?

I am a Malaysian Chinese from a Taoist / Buddhist background. Around me are Muslims, Buddhist, Taoist, Sikhs, Animists and I have friends from all this groups. However I am also a Christian who after searching the Bible can only come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible is the one who makes the claims that the only way to Him is through Jesus of the Bible, not us. I am distressed at the conclusion but who am I to question God's ways? If I reject the truth as the Bible teaches then it is better for me to admit that I do not actually believe and go elsewhere for the truth rather than make the Christian God into our image and an idol of our own understanding.

i enjoy discussing this issue with the 60% of evangelical Christians that DO believe everybody else is headed to the hot place ... the conversation usually goes something like this:

me: "so, you seriously believe that the most humble, loving, self-sacrificing Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Buddist on planet earth, that has completely dedicated their entire life to serving God and their neighbor, is going to hell ... but that self-righteous, self-centered, spiteful jack@** from accounting that said one prayer to Jesus 20 years ago is going to heaven? you seriously believe in a God that would set up the universe like that? seriously?"

them: "um ..." (nano-second of reflection and self-doubt) "...yes..."

your story reminds me of a pamphlet i wrote a while ago called What Does The Bible Say? while i disagree with you about a lot of things, this sort of thing is the reason why i subscribe to your blog. 8)

Thank you, Gordon. You have put it very well. I hear God saying something like this to me: “It’s mostly none of your business, this question of who worships me rightly, and who does not. Your business is to seek me and to find me, for I am seeking you, and I am seeking those you would judge. If I want to listen to their prayers, what concern is that of yours? Are you going to tell me that I cannot? Or if some prayers are an abomination to me, do I need you to tell me I must respond to them? Spend your time and energy instead on answering my call to you, and living accordingly. (There is room for a great deal of improvement in that.) You don’t know much, but you know enough to love other people, and to live lightly on the land, and to spend some time with me so you will do these things better. If you want to share your faith with others, fine; but be sure you are equally interested in opening yourself to their faith, or lack of it. And by the way, if you MUST draw a circle to exclude the ones you think I couldn’t possibly tolerate, make it a big, generous circle. Otherwise you might find yourself on the wrong side of the line.”

I find it almost impossible to understand the exclusive worldview in the first place. I like when you write like this, and I know what it is to be shaken all the way down, but religious exclusivity isn't someplace I've ever lived.

I'm glad I've had my other view-shattering experiences, because they help me understand the depth of yours, but it's weird, isn't it, what people have to go through in order to achieve mere compassion.

Or maybe just some of us do, I don't know. Maybe the rest have it naturally. Looking around suggests not, though.

John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

I'm curious about the hermeneutic one uses to interpret her/his experiences/feelings. Are such hermeneutics always/inevitably subjective?

On another note, if the conclusions you've drawn are accurate, does this in some way downplay the significance of the cross event? Would it make the cross only an expression of God's love for humanity, (which again makes it a subjective event)?

From your perspective, what, if anything, in the Christian faith is objectively true?

I, too, was raised with the "this-is-the-ONLY-way" attitude of Catholicism/Christianity. I've also come to see that belief as erroneous. One of the things that first did it for me is a little book entitled "The Gospel According to Zen," which showed some fantastic similarities between the Zen stories/ideas I'd learned about from my Dad and the actual teachings of Jesus and some Christian mystics. For me, I was also never able to reconcile the idea that God loves all of us and yet would send only one "true" religion, thus condemning a hefty percentage of the world's population to suffering on an eternal basis. That NEVER sounded like it made any sense to me.

Anymore, I tend to look for truth wherever I can find it and build my own personal sense/understanding of the Higher Power I choose to call God. Religions are signposts, all of which (or at least most of which) point the way to the Divine. Just like there's no one, right way to drive from Texas to California, there's no one religion that is the only true way.

Hmmm....Good Samaritan story comes to mind here, too. I don't recall anywhere in there that Jesus said that despite him doing the compassionate, loving thing he was still gonna burn in Hell for using the wrong words when he prayed or wrong name for the Creator.

Thanks.

That was a wonderful testimony from someone who, it would appear, is truly full of that which we all seek. The Spirit of Christ. I may understand it differently than most, but it it exibited wonderfully here. Jesus only wanted us to all be happy.

Hello, all. My name is knowledge, I come seeking wisdom. I was referred to this page and this particular blog by a friend. I come from a small town that is complicated. I won't say more for fear of boring you, but I need to ask a question of the author of this blog (and anyone else that thinks they can advise me properly). First just a touch of backfill (sorry if this is the wrong place for this):

I don't want to mislead. I was raised by my grandfather, an apologetic pastor with an evangelical congregation. I was torn from that life (which was rather contradictory and confusing) and dragged back into the life my parents led, which was unsavory (to be polite). My intelligence and constant search for explanation (I have always been inquisitive and wordy to boot) has lead me, at 28 to being a skeptic agnostic leaning heavily towards atheism.

This post is not a plea for help or a "troll" post. I see many really forward thinking christians here, and I have only read this one blog and it's 32 comments (every word, I am bad about that) so I am sure if I poke around a bit I could find many more from other religions that are here talking.

I am feeling out Pascal's Wager and I don't like the statistical side of it. My question to all of you is this (by now it's what you are all thinking, so I might be a bit psychic, LOL):

Where is a good place to discuss all this with people who won't just blow up on you one way or the other?

I have found a great free thought and rationalism Forum that is almost all atheists. The are very progressive thinkers.

Do you all have a forum I could frequent where I might get the flip side of the coin? Discussion of christianity (and possibly other religions and or NO religion) that includes free thought and rationalism in any way?

thanks for reading ,sorry for the rant... please reply by email if you wish, though I will come back tomorrow.
knowledge_is_nothing101@yahoo.com

Faith will not create a religion.......

Simply, religion is anti-Messiah.......

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the ocntrol of the evil one" indeed and Truth.......

Truth is never ending.......

thedestructionoftheearth.wordpress.com

Once heard the definition that a conservative accepts only those to his right and a liberal accepts only those to his left, or something like that. Both sides need to open their arms both ways, maybe.

About the cross... is it possible that the Jesus will be the savior through the cross, of many who love God and neighbor, but may not have been raised to believe that the cross is the reason for such? Does that make any sense?
I believe that every knee will bow before him, but not in this world. I believe Jesus is everyone's messiah and savior, even though they may not believe such.

hi Gordon :)

this is beautiful, and means so much to me that i managed to squeeze it in along with all my anti-religion and anti-god notes that i keep. i'm so use to destroying views and beliefs, you know? breaking things down, looking for the bad and showing people that they're wrong and hurting people, but i take so little time to look for the good.

this is all i ever want from people, to stop seeing me as a target or a victim of the world. yesterday i had 2 jehovah witnesses come to my door, and i promised myself the next 2 that came to my door and started reading from the bible to me without asking, were going to get it. and you know what? i couldn't. they were such kind people, and their eyes shone. and took one of their magazines later, which i threw away, but having spoken to them i felt better.

now, you're probably wondering how that affects this overall, and it's that we're all people. many christians around me are so touchy about things, liek my homosexual friends, the books i read, even the way i spend my sundays and christmas, but to me Gordon, you're an incredible christian, and just from reading you blogs i want to be a little more like you, a little more like your christ, instead of this Jesus that gets pushed on me every day.

i hope you have a beautiful day :)

Devan

I think it all boils down to the horror of the cross and our theology of the divinity of Christ.

If we believe in the extraordinary kenotic condescension of God as expressed in the incarnation—becoming a God-man, a peasant, forsaking the eternal throne, becoming lower than God's creation, being subject to its evil and enduring its misunderstanding, being immersed in the filth around us—if we believe that I'm not sure if we can't be exclusive about this. Surely if it wasn't necessary for Jesus to do this to enable us to come to God, then it wouldn't have been done. (as i recall in the garden of gethsemene, there was no other way even though Jesus pleaded for it to be so). If God didn't have to, then why did she?

I'm not articulating it very well here—but i'm trying to allude to an emotional disconnect between the violence of the cross and the 'niceness' of having a more open perspective where 'Christianity is in some sense unnecessary' for knowing the heart of God.

And second, which follows from the first, if we truly believe that Jesus was the Son of God and is an accurate representation of God's being then why would we settle for anything less? An encounter with Christ has got to be the proverbial gold-standard of spiritual experience.

It's my two cents. I want to be more inclusive, but as you yourself admit, scripture doesn't let us get away with it, and in my view, neither does the story of Jesus.

I came to the same conclusion. Somewhat differently. I think that all have sinned, etc. I think that because of the "all sufficient work of Christ" that the path back to God has been opened. I think that anyone who seeks will find, and that all God expects is to give grace.

Thank you, Gordon. You are so brave to speak the truth of your heart so that we can revel in it with you. That is how the cataclysm begins.

I drive on I-90 in Boston, and it is the same highway as I-90 in Seattle, 3000 miles away. I look at a photograph of my mother as a baby, and it is the same person as my mother now, 60+ years later. How am I to say that Buddha and Christ are not the same being? Might not Hindus be followers of Christ, even though they claim not to be?

If you haven't heard this broadcast of This American Life, on Carlton Pearson (a former president-advising, TBN hosting, Pentecostal pastor of a 5000-strong megachurch), you probably should give it a listen. The most dramatic point starts around 18:30. It is amazing.

On a different note, conflicts like that in Rwanda (which also plays a big role in Pearson's story) make me doubt that there's any strong link between religious exclusivism and conflicts across religious lines. Hutus and Tutsis weren't exclusivists. In some cases, people who killed each other during the massacre had formerly gone to the same churches. "Hutu" and "Tutsi" are nearly meaningless labels, but still provided enough of a division to drown a country in blood. Aggression is opportunistic like that, it runs deep in the human soul, and doesn't need anything like an exclusivist notion of salvation to get going.

I never thought I would be saying this to a Baptist, even a liberal one, but thank God for the Episcopal church, to wit:

"This a true saying and worthy to be received, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. I Timothy 1:15

If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the perfect offering for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:1-2"

Episcopal Book of Common Prayer p. 332

For further thoughts on Jesus and what He, and he alone, did for us, please see the Journal of the American Medical Association, 255: 1455-1463 (1986), On the Physical Death of Jesus Christ.

You don't have to go to a medical school library, you can simply Google it.

In Christ,

I read the words today (oh boy) and heard them again for the first time- "-EVERYONE- who loves is born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7b). Everyone. Wow. We want to make it more complex, more exclusive than that, but there it is. Everyone! God has indeed reconciled the whole world to Gods-self.

This is true love from God to us, so we can have confidence at the end of the days.

Writes is very good thanks do you deserve to share:) kabin keyboard to the health.

describes su deposu a very nice hand health, I want to thank in a lot different. gamecam
knight online 1733 koxp indir

I never had the life-changing revelation, but I arrived at the same conclusion, after coming from the same tradition as you, through more gradual means. It's good to hear that there are others besides me who struggle with this faith I love so dearly..

Thank you very much for this information...

Thanks for shared

раскрутка сайта - это полезный инструмент для целенаправленного возбуждения интереса к Вашему сайту поисковых систем и юзеров Интернета. Реклама или раскрутка сайта - одна из составляющих удачного бизнеса. Удерживаться от необдуманных затрат и сэкономить время поможет мAстерская раскрутка сайта

Входные форпост двери - самая популярная марка в городе Москва. Мы предлагаем: железные входные двери продажа и установка по самой выгодной цене, железные входные двери подкупают качественными материалами, дизайном, современными технологиями и выгодной ценой, поэтому двери форпост лучшее решение не только для украшения интерьера но и для защиты помещения от взлома.

[b]Party Poker Spring Bonus Code ! USE CODE: pibonus325 on your first deposit and get free 325 euros![/b]

Besides the big bonus, will also be eligible to play in an exclusive private monthly $ 6000 Freeroll!
These freerolls are open to anyone who has signed for Party Poker Poker and play with some points at least 100 games in the previous calendar month.
The freeroll will be held monthly on the 3rd Saturday at 3 pm EST.
This means that if he wins 100th match points in November, having the opportunity to play in the $ 6000 freeroll held December 3 Saturday.
The freeroll will be available each month – indefinitely. This is a great value for all players Poker-infos.com Party Poker.

Hello. I just moved to the Miami area. I am looking for a solid company to help me with a refinance. I purchased the house from a short sale and had to do business over the phone because I was living in Az. I dont think that I got a good deal. My interest rate in now 6.99 percent. I think that I can refinance and get a much better deal. Please point me in the right direction.