i'm a church of christ minister who realizes that my time is limited as a minister in this denomination. my understanding of the bible is as you have written here. and that just won't fly in the c. of c. i, too, am tired of the fighting. there just isn't time.

amen, amen!

Essays like this that are so beautifully written and full of so much to think about are why I am a faithful reader of RLP.

Thank you for sharing them.

PS. I'm logged in as myself (Hilary) & tried to post this comment, but I get this error message:

The name you used belongs to a registered user.

This reminded me of something Richard Feynman said, the second part of which I once set for classical singers and synthesizer:

"I can live with the doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we're here.

"I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me."

He also said something, once, about being able to tell how much a man really knew about his specialty by how soon he started saying "I don't know," when the questions started moving beyond its scope, but I can't find it on the Internet. It must be buried in one of my Feynman books.

As a person who loves words, and especially written words, I'm at a point now where I just have a problem with the whole "veneration of scripture" thing altogether.

I want to say to religious leaders: Tell the stories. Talk about God. But stop pointing to a book to justify yourself and your way.

I'll be more likely to follow if I like the way you behave, if your deeds are congruent with your words, if you and your followers are obviously happy, healthy, and kind.

Jesus didn't spend any time telling people to "Believe the Torah." He could quote it as accurately as the next rabbi, but he didn't smack people around with it. He distilled it down to one sentence ~ "You shall love the Lord your God... and your neighbor as yourself" ~ (which by the way is still serviceable) and then got on with living as a child of God. Seems like a good model to me.

Gordon,

Thank you for giving us a breath of fresh air.

May God bless your pursuit.

Blessing,

Bill
bill.finley@gmail.com

Thank you for this.

I think what I love most about this piece is the lack of defensiveness. There's no pushing back against the accusation of not "believing the Bible," just a pondering in your own heart, and then holding firm to what you find there. I need to hold onto that as I get ready to deal with having a closer relationship with my significant other's Southern Baptist family, many of whom have already expressed doubts to him about my apparent lack of faith because I'm an Episcopalian and a Democrat even though they haven't met me yet.

Oh, and one quick proofreading note--it's "lightning" not "lightening" unless you really think those bolts are adding light to the situation. :) Editor by trade, I can't help myself.

You know how sometimes you hear (or read) exactly what you needed to hear (or read) at a given time, and the person doing the talking (or writing) has no idea that's exactly what you needed to hear?

Some call it coincidence, others call it serendipity, and others the still, small voice of God.

Call it what you will. I just had one of those experiences thanks to your post. You and I love Scripture similarly, and it seems have had similar comments concerning our seeming lack of reverence/belief/love for Scripture directed at us, when in reality what we're trying to do is to be faithful.

God bless you.

http://lutheranhusker.blogspot.com

Do you have a favorite Bible story?

Susana,

Thanks for the catch. correction made.

Anonymous: Favorite bible story? No, I've never thought about it. Off the top of my head:

Creation/Fall story from Genesis
Some of the scenes from Abraham's life
Jacob and Esau
Joseph's life
Pretty much Genesis 12-50 - So full of archetype. So rich.
Samuel's birth and early life
Solomon and David stories
Pretty much ever episode from the life of Jesus. The ones I've written about here in particular.

This is very touching, indeed. Thanks so very much for giving expression to what so many of us non-fundamentalist believers carry around in our hearts, day in, day out. God bless.

Henrik

That is a wonderful post, sir. Thank you.

Words aren't strong enough for the comfort this piece gives me. I still despair greatly over all the hypocrisy we Christians are capable of, to the point where I again retreat to my shell and refuse to call myself one. Hardly the solution. My faith feels so tentative, so fragile, mainly due to my struggle against fundamentalism and wanting to be sure I don't associate with anything that would make anyone feel shamed. judged, not worthy.

And just when I'm ready to give up on it all again, you wirte something like this & I'm tossed a lifeline back to God. Thank you so much.

Amen! Amen! Amen!

Thank you once again for articulating my heart for me.

Where on earth did you come up with the part about "...believe the Bible all over the house...?"

It's so, somehow, PERFECT.

Great essay is an understatement.

Your words ring true, as usual. It's why I chickened out after being accepted to seminary years ago.

Thanks for this, RLP.

Tripp Hudgins
www.anglobaptist.org

the background of the blog reminds me of antique wall paper...i really like it.

i like wood cuts and graphic looking art sometimes and these are very nice.

i do not know what the old look was
but the new look is just dandy

Don't you christans know whats going on? Gods Kingdom is coming. All else must go.

http://1amimybrotherskeeper.blogspot.com/2008/12/history-and-meaning-of-...

Whew. This is one hell of an essay. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

This post hits to the core, rlp. Oh, how I wish someone would have spoken words like this to me at a time when I didn't believe/love/know any of it. You have no idea how much it blesses me even now.

This is the part that really got me:
"And I will always struggle with how I can love/know the scriptures when some parts are so hard and mean and awful that you feel bad for even reading them. And then some parts are so beautiful that you can’t stop crying when they whisper little hints of truth and mystery to you."

I've been -- and continue to be -- in both places at once.

I remember the first time I read the two-word sentence: JESUS WEPT. I just sat there and cried, with the Bible open on my lap.

Good tears, all -- then and now.

Thank you, thank you.

Amen and Amen!!

Yea verily. :)

Thank you for capturing the uncertainty that comes with trying to understand the "strange new world of the Bible." I teach biblical studies at a community college, and some of my students are surprised to learn that there is complexity and puzzlement, not certainty, within its narratives. It doesn't correspond to their idea of the Bible as a rule book.

But your writing of knowing and being known by the biblical voice--what a wonderful way of putting it! What wonderful loving words. Thank you for writing this: I'll be sharing it with my adult Sunday School class.

"It seems like it is the time for listening and loving and accepting all who seek truth in peace and are open-minded enough to confess that they are simply not up to the task."

GREAT statement.

When I was in India a few years ago sitting at the feet of a Hindu Holy man listening to him I felt the strongest experience with the Holy Spirit then I had in a long time. Simply put the spirit said "I am with him" and it puzzled me for a long time. How can you be with a Hindu priest who is sending people to hell by teaching them what he knows? I was shocked when the answer came that it was simply because he was seeking the truth. From his paradigm in life, in his situation, he was unraveling the truth as he knew it and studied it.

My mental paradigm shifted big time after that experience. Thanks for sharing yourself.

What does it mean to believe the Bible? Believe (scripturally) means trust ... like you trusted your parents before you were able to understand them ... like you trusted your teachers and did what they told you, and you saw that it worked like they told you it would if you did it their way, for the most part. Being "weak and liberal" stem from being "not very serious about the Bible". Trust and obedience lead to increasing understanding. You seem frustrated and defeated by witholding faith until you have attained understanding. Have you considered approaching it the other way around?

Do I believe the Bible? I’m trying to know the Bible. And by knowing, I mean the way that Adam knew Eve, and the way that the Creator knows us. I mean the kind of knowing that is like falling in love. I’m trying to love/know the Bible. And I will always struggle with how I can love/know the scriptures when some parts are so hard and mean and awful that you feel bad for even reading them. And then some parts are so beautiful that you can’t stop crying when they whisper little hints of truth and mystery to you.

It's the exact same way in the Sciences. I can substitute "the Bible" in that paragraph with any science or technology I want to know, and it still rings true.
Sometimes I feel broken for not being able to understand some things, and sometimes beautiful little glimpses come through.

I love your essays. They do indeed help me think about things I normally find indigestible. Thank you.

Wait, so you don't believe in the bible?

;)

I was recently frustrated by a conversation that basically followed the following logic:

1) The Bible is either 100% infallible historical fact ORit is lies.

2) I don't believe the Bible is 100% infallible historical fact.

3) Therefore, I believe the Bible is lies.

4) I still claim to be a Christian, despite the Bible being lies.

5) Therefore, I must be crazy, because I believe lies.

And this from a Christian brother! Nevermind the fact that someone else piped in to the conversation and said "Wait, if the Bible isn't true, I want to know about it so I can stop wasting my time with Jesus." Yikes, people!

I think I will send them a link to this post of yours.

----Content deemed inappropriate. Removed by rlp----

Thanks Gordon!

I've been struggling with the bible as well. Over the last five years it seems the authors had more in common with the Taliban and the Muhlahs than with Christ.

Glad I'm not alone.

The Bible has always been embroiled in controversy: what was kept, what was not, why canonization took place...these answers in history show its current form to be a product of fear as much as faith. The best description I've heard comes from the late Charles Baughman of St. Paul Seminary in Kansas City: "The Bible is always correct; though not always factually accurate." These readings are like voices on the wind. They give us pause to listen and ponder...and focus our attention toward the Divine. They are not, however, a closed set of religious rules. But what do I know, I'm just a dangerous heretic.

Excellent! I preached for more than 30 years and, by God's grace, grew from a very legalistic / conservative church of Christ background to a very grace-oriented person who says, "Amen" to what you've written. After 15 years at a wonderful and very non-traditional church of Christ in Long Beach, CA, I resigned and am working for my son and with my wife in a family-owned business. We were attending a Christian Church but I finally left after too many Sundays of hearing, "and if you don't believe this, then you're not a Christian." The last one had to do with 1 Th. 4:13-18 regarding death and, moreso, resurrection of those who are "asleep" in Christ. The "preacher" was talking about having no fear of death and said, "If you fear death, you are not a Christian." He emphasized that at least three times, all the while I'm thinking that Paul wrote these words to encourage Christians who were, in fact, fearing death because they didn't understand it. Sigh . . . .

I really enjoyed your post. As a pastor I am humbled at the idea of communicating the Gospel. The realization of my own weakness and how far short I often come to the Truth makes presenting the Bible an awesome task. I have people tell me that I am more a teacher than a preacher, but I think that somehow the definition of a good preacher has become a person who yells in the pulpit. That is just not me. For me, a simple honest, humble sharing of the Bible, all the while aware of the fact that I have not yet arrived, is where I am at. Thanks again for your honesty!

<3

my dad used to annoy me with "the more you know, the less you know," but there does seem to be a pattern in the learning process.

1. i know nothing about, say, war, but i don't know this about me.
2. until i watch a documentary on the subject and realize that i know nothing.
3. then i watch ken burn's "the civil war" and read team of rivals by doris kearns goodwin and visit gettysburg, and think i know everything about war because i know a few things about the civil war.
4. then i pay attention to the conflicts in my own life - between me and me and between me and neighbors, and read about other wars, and maybe fight in a war, and then find myself advocating one war but not another, and so on, only to realize that while i have a good deal of knowledge about war, i really know very little about it.

i find a similar process taking place spiritually, but with an additional component or two that i simply can't wrap my head around: the supernatural and the infinite. this doesn't mean i have stopped or will stop trying to make sense of who God is and what his words mean. however, i'm learning to live better with the questions.

and i think God is okay with that.

Just my personal musings as a pastor:
I think it is humanly impossible to believe in the Bible as literal revelation. Everybody, even the sternest fundamentalist (maybe esp. he), will somehow or other interpret the Bible, by paying more attention to some texts than to others, by including some texts in his teaching and forgetting about others. Even within the Bible texts and traditions are being reevalued and interpreted. In this respect the Bible is a very human thing. To me it is a human record of human experiences with God plus human attempts to understand these experiences. In this way the Bible contains God´s Word but is not and cannot be "the Word". The Word of God is Jesus himself, whom we are called to trust and love. All else would be bibliolatry. As is the case with all other false Gods Bible worship gives a false sense of security, one that is self suffient and has lost its dependece on God himself. God can not be handled. Sometimes I find it very hard to understand and trust this ancient, wild or silent God, but I will not ever trade my trust in Him for anything, not even for a record of his doings. I could make the Bible bend to my will and my understanding, but He never will, and i´d rather live with that.
But I also believe the Bible ist God´s Word, because He has spoken through its words to me personally. I believe there are experiences and reflexions in this book so precious I wouldn´t want to live without having touched them. My personal experience is that God uses this book to personally speak to us human beings. Suddenly an old text is not written to some far away and ancient church anymore, but to me personally.
How much time does one have? I am 42 now, I am a pastor and maybe I that is what I´ll be for the rest of my life. Anyway, I hope to go to heaven some day because I once trusted my life to Jesus and still do so.
I feel my life is like a poker game: If what the Bible tells me is true and if my experiences don´t fool me, I´ll be there some day, seing God face to face and maybe understanding or not needing to understand anymore. If it all was vain, at least I have travelled a good path in life. I have nothing to regret.
(Time for preaching is over ;) I´d better get back to my sermon)
God bless everybody!

I only discovered your blog by a six-degrees-of-separation connection, but I will surely be back often. I've spent most of the last hour browsing back through your blog, and

Your reflection is both law and Gospel for me. How can one writing knock all the wind out of me, and at the same time be a breath of sweet, fresh air?

Thank you for inviting us to join you on your journey.

Oops! I accidentally submitted my comment before I finished writing it.

That first paragraph should have continued: I've spent most of the last hour browsing back through your blog, and I'm amazed at how often your words express my feelings more clearly than I could.

RLP,
Thank you for being so honest, so "real".

It is very hard for me to know the Bible but I still keep trying. Year after year, as I reread verses, they seem to sing to me with a different melody each time, striking distinctive and sometimes disparate chords... but no matter if they woo me or anger me, they always leave me in awe of my Lord.

rlp's writings have captured my intellect and emotions like no other author. I'm really glad to hear that others experience the same doubts and uncertainties as I am experiencing.

I'm 65 and if I have inherited my dad's genes, I have another 14 years left on this planet. (If I had my mother's genes, I'd already be dead. I was raised as a strict fundamentalist. Everything that was fun was a sin - movies, TV, mixed bathing (it's not what you think), etc. Now I see TV preachers with microphones and earphones attached to their heads, and they are so certain that everything they say is the truth: the earth is 6000 years old, homosexuals will burn in hell, God wants you to vote Republican. Well, in my latter years, I've grown a set and am starting to rebel. I don't understand why Abraham was ready to sacrifice his son because God told him to do it. I would have said, "No, you prick - if you want him dead, you'll have to do it yourself." What kind of God would pull such a cruel joke?

Keep writing rlp. You have my attention.

You know, I try to look at the man Jesus was. He wasn't a king, he wasn't rich ~ he was powerful, but his power came from a source of great humility. The more we profess to know the answers to life's questions, the less we become what the bible asks us to be... like little children. Every great prophet has come into the world wearing the cloak of humility. We confuse humility with humiliation, which is not the same thing. Humbleness knows its realistic place in the world. None of us is less than or greater than any other being. To think of ourselves as anything else is to fall short of the truth, which is that we are all god's creatures, we are all in this together, we all know the pain and joys of walking this earth, and when we harm or judge another, we harm all of creation. When we bless one, we bless all. We are just that interconnected. "Belief" gets in the way of this. "Belief" proclaims war against anyone who doesn't "believe" what you do. I pray we will learn to put the gun of judgment down and learn to "be" with each other instead of clinging to, and defining ourselves by what makes us unique. I agree with you, Gordon, it is better to "know" than to "believe". Thank you for this beautiful entry.

How can a blog that talks so much of uncertainty be inspired and inspire others? I don't know, but you sure, through the Spirit, inspired me. What a breath of fresh air! Thanks.

I found this on Epiphany. What grace. Thank you for this breath of life.

This resonates deeply with me - thank you. It's what I wish I had the courage to write to people from my past I still call my friends, and they probably call me a heretic. Beautiful.

Beautiful
Beautiful
Beautiful

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Oh fond memories. History is what determines us. With knowledge of our history or others' histories, we learn about our or others traits and styles. This is exactly what

I do think some people take the words in the book to the extreme and possibly which is not how they were intended to be interpreted, but then who knows what is the right way.
Thanks Ivan