Health Insurance in the U.S. - A Broken System

November 30, 2007 - 9:45am

Maybe you noticed I was gone for a few days. I had some pretty important stuff going on, and I just didn’t have any energy to write. I’m going to tell you what happened to us. I could have written this without so much detail, but I think the details might be important for someone who is in the same situation.

Four days ago Jeanene and I were looking at the real possibility of our entire family being medically uninsured. No insurance of any kind for us or our children.

Jeanene quit her job, as I’ve mentioned. After 20 years of chaplaincy, 20 years of being on-call for emergencies, she was through. I could see it in her eyes. Some essential part of Jeanene  was gone. Used up. And our children, particularly our middle daughter, really need a parent at home right now.

She had to stop. An opportunity for me to do some blogging work with The Christian Century and The High Calling gave us a chance to let her retire from being a chaplain. We're taking a significant pay cut, so it's risky. And there is no guarantee the blog networks I work with will continue. This was an important decision for us and we agonized over it. But sometimes in life you take a leap of faith. The faith we have is not a faith that God will rescue us physically and make sure that everything is okay. The Creator of the Universe has obviously made peace with the idea of mostly letting things unfold here according to our choices and the natural movement of the planet.

The faith we have comes with believing that it was the right thing for her to leave. The right thing for her health and our family. We felt peace about it. So we held hands and jumped.

---

About 6 years ago, when Jeanene was laid off for a period of two years, we called Blue Cross Blue Shield and had health insurance for our entire family in a matter of days. We thought we’d be able to do that again.

We were wrong.

Our middle daughter has had some emotional traumas in the last couple of years. She’s told me that I could write about our journey through all of that, but it hasn’t felt right yet so I haven’t. With a lot of help and with two serious medications, she’s doing well. She’s been doing very well since the Spring.

Unfortunately, those two drugs and something she went through in January make her untouchable. There isn’t an insurance company in America that will take her. Even if we release the insurance company from all mental health benefit obligations. Even if, like Blue Cross Blue Shield, they don’t cover any mental health benefits anyway. Even so, no one will take her. She’s tainted because of something that happened to her. It’s strictly an emotional thing. She has no physical problems.

As it turns out, no one will take me either. Why? Because I’ve been taking Wellbutrin for 2 years. It works beautifully. It’s given me back my life. If you read my pieces on depression you know how much I HATED to admit that I needed help with a drug. But I obviously did.

But that’s it for me. I was turned down by Blue Cross Blue Shield even though they don’t pay for any mental heath issues anyway. I was even turned down by the insurance provider for Texas Baptist ministers who serve small churches without benefits. I thought they would listen and give us a chance. Nope.

I’m a bad risk now. That’s the thing. Good heart. No cancer. No high blood pressure. Low cholesterol. I’ve never even had surgery. I don’t smoke. I’ve only missed two Sundays in 17 years as a pastor for illness. I’m a healthy guy, and I’m used to being treated like a healthy guy.

But I take Wellbutrin, so there must be something wrong with me, right?

Actually, it’s not quite as personal as someone looking you in the eye and saying, “You're a bad risk.” The health insurance industry is too big for that. They have computer-generated statistics that tell them people who take drugs for mental health reasons are bad risks - period. I am a clear exception to that rule, but that’s the rule.

Congress passed a law called COBRA in 1986 that requires employers to allow you to keep your insurance if you leave their company. They don't have to help you pay for it anymore, but they have to carry you - at your own expense - for at least 18 months. We went online and discovered that it was going to cost us $1600 a month to keep our insurance. And of course, that's only for 18 months. 18 Months from now we would be in the same position.

We can’t afford that, so it’s really no option for us. Please! That’s more than our house payment. Technically the hospital has fulfilled the obligation of the law, but I don’t know too many families who can afford $1600 a month for health insurance.

Texas has a state-subsidized health insurance pool for people who can’t get health insurance. Shelby and I could go into the state pool, leaving Jeanene and the other two girls to get their insurance in a more traditional way. But now COBRA really comes back to bite you. The State insurance pool won’t take you if you have any other options. Even if your only option isn’t really an option because you don’t have $1600 a month.

We were falling into a crack in the system. We can’t afford what the insurance company grudgingly offers ex-employees at an insane price. And we don’t quality for the State insurance pool because they did offer us something.

By Tuesday we had admitted defeat.

---

I’m going to tell you right now that this story has a happy ending. But it could have gone the other way. Very easily could have gone the other way.

We found a man in town who is a kind of independent health insurance broker. He knows the system, and he can figure out ways for you to get insurance. It’s not always great insurance, but he can find something. He’s really good at what he does. I wouldn’t assume that many people can find someone like him.

What if we hadn’t found out about him? Or what if we lived in some other city and couldn't find someone like this? I keep thinking about that. What if?

But we did find him. He came to our house on Wednesday and got right to work. He pulled Shelby out of our family, as far as insurance is concerned. Jeanene’s company has to cover her for 18 months because of the COBRA law. If it is just her, the cost of COBRA drops to $300 a month. In 18 months that benefit will run out and she can go into the Texas pool for the uninsured. Even this specialist admits that no one will ever cover Shelby for anything as long as she is on the medication that is making her well and keeping her from harming herself. Ironic, huh?

He knew of an insurance company - a good one - that will take someone like me, someone who takes Wellbutrin or some other drug for depression. They won’t cover me for mental health benefits - that’s over for me - but they will at least cover me for regular medical coverage. And it’s affordable.

You put the whole thing together and it comes out to about $900 a month. That figure includes my medication, which I will have to pay for myself from now on. That’s double what we were paying through Jeanene’s work, but we can swing that. It’s going to be hard but we can do it. So the story has a happy ending. Or at least a tolerable one.

So why am I telling you all of this? Because this is what people are going through in our country. Jeanene and I work hard. We’ve never been unemployed. In fact, for the last decade, we’ve had three jobs between us. We don’t smoke and we don’t take risks. We’ve never had a single major medical incident. You’d think a company would want to insure us.

No. And we came just that close to being uninsured.

For many people this is never an issue because they work for companies with insurance plans. If our church were large enough to have a plan, we could have moved from Jeanene’s plan to my church’s plan. With group insurance they have to take you if you currently have coverage.

That’s great for families with that option. But what about families that only have one person working for a company with insurance? If that person loses their job or can no longer work for any reason, you have to get individual coverage. And with individual coverage, they can turn you down for any reason they want.

You want to know something else? If you apply for insurance and get turned down two or three times, that goes on your record. Every time you get denied, other companies become even more unwilling to consider you. With two or three rejections in your history (for any reason), you can become uninsurable pretty quickly.

What I’m saying to you is, hard-working people who are physically healthy sometimes can’t get health insurance. It almost happened to us. If we hadn’t found this man and our insurance had lapsed for more than 60 days, then we would really have been in trouble. Because being uninsured is yet another big mark against you in the system.

People - it’s time we admit that the system isn’t working. We are going to have to have some kind of a national health care program. It won’t be perfect, but it will be better than what we have now. We need it, and we need it quickly.

rlp

 

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 9:57am.

recently the same thing happened to me. I'm 25, working temporarily as an intern in a faith-based organization, so I'm on my own to find insurance. For the past few years I've gone to the university health clinic, but now that I'm out I don't have that option. over 10 years ago, before my family and I knew how to deal with my depression, I attempted suicide. But now, thanks to good counseling and medecine, I don't worry that that will ever happen again. Why did I get turned down? Depression, ongoing counseling, and suicide attempt (even though I was 14). Your story was both encouraging and terrifying for me. I'm afraid to apply again because who knows if I'll get turned down again, and if the risk keeps building.

What are you going to do for your daughter? Since, as you say, no one will touch her?

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 10:09am.

Well, Jeanene's company has to keep her under the Cobra law. She alone will stay with them. $300. When her 18 months is up, she can go into the Texas health pool for the uninsurable. And believe it or not, Texas has a pretty good plan. In other states, after COBRA runs out, you're done.

What would have happened to us is this: We would have been uninsured for 18 months. (Unable to afford COBRA payments) At the end of that time we would qualify for our state insurance pool. But if anything happened to us in that 18 months, we could have been financially ruined.

That's the best case scenario in a state with a program to help you. Not all states have this.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:16am.

Dang straight, Preacher. The same thing happened to me when my spouse was laid off a few years ago, and it sobered us both right up. Health care is an area where a government solution is absolutely necessary.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:18am.

Nothing but sympathy, here. I was in a similar situation (though not nearly as close to not having any coverage, fortunately!). Being refused coverage is one of the most utterly frustrating experiences I have ever been through. Completely demoralizing. I'm so glad that you were able to get coverage without risking running up against that 60-day limit!

It's sickening to me that every day, people are forced to make employment decisions that adversely affect every other area of their lives simply because of the way health insurance works in this country. My husband, in training to be a doctor, is horrified at the huge number of people with full-time jobs who don't have any health insurance at all. Young healthy people can get away with it; the rest of us, not so much.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:20am.

I meant to say "can get away with it as long as something catastrophic doesn't happen to them". My sister is lucky, that way. Her first few jobs after college had no health coverage, and she didn't really need it. Thankfully. And she now has a job that does.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:18am.

I also had a similar experience--moved to a new city with my partner, but we aren't married, so I wasn't able to get on his insurance, assumed individual insurance would work out--but because I saw a councelor one time when my father died I am enough of a risk that they jacked my premium up--plus, the insurance covered almost nothing.

I also got lucky. I am the co-owner of a tiny incorporated business. By joining the chamber of commerce we were able to qualify for group insurance--for our very tiny group of 1. Based on this group insurance I'm in the healthiest group--and everything is covered.

The current system is an embarrassment.

Submitted by Keith on November 30, 2007 - 10:21am.

We pay for our own too. It's been something like $1300/month. My not-particularly-sniffle-prone wife was reduced to tears several times over the insane bureaucracy and expense of setting things up so it would actually work--and that was in conjunction with an insurance broker.

I have MS. It's a pre-existing condition. Under New York law, they're still required to sell you the insurance, but they don't have to cover the pre-existing condition for a year. The drug costs $1000/month if you go out-of-pocket.

Insurance companies are the best crime syndicate there is.

Well, maybe second to big pharmaceuticals.

Well, maybe third to the government.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:21am.

Welcome to the ranks of the "self-employed" brother. I went back into ministry after a break working for a major insurer (ironic). We had the same frustrating search. Now that I'm on blood pressure meds and my wife has a history of respiratory problems, we're uninsurable with the "big guys." Like you, we found a company to carry us but it's not very good coverage. And extremely expensive! And they won't touch any expense that they can prove is related to my heart.

All that to say "amen" to the system being broken. Unfortunately, it's going to take government intervention to fix it. I'm backing any candidate at any level who can explain to me exactly how a middle class family like mine can receive health care at an affordable rate.

Thanks for sharing your life with us. Your transparency and integrity encourage me every time I get to read your blog!

Blessings,

Lanny Smith
Chesapeake, Va

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:42am.

This looks so hard for you. I live in the UK where health care is available to all for free as part of taxation. The system is far from perfect. Latest drugs are often not available, there are waiting list for treatment and hospitals aren't always pleasant places to be (are they ever?).

I hope you can find a way through that gets you the cover you need.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 10:49am.

I agree. We've seen this, and we're not happy about it. If a candidate for national office is not willing at least to talk about this and consider it a problem, they won't get my vote.

I voice the need out loud in my Christian evangelical conservative circles at RBC Ministries where I work. Most see the idea of national/universal health care as bad. I see the situation today as bad and we must address this issue to help those like yourself (and it could easily become many of us) who could easily fall into the same.

Ted Gossard

Submitted by abiding on November 30, 2007 - 10:59am.

I returned last night from the National Prevention Summit in Washington, DC. The theme was "Creating a Culture of Wellness". I sat for four days and listened to people such as Laura Bush, the head of the CDC, and the US Surgeon General. I wish I could tell you that I came away feeling encouraged. I didn't. At all. You are very correct...the system is broken. Unfortunately the decision makers and power players seem to have a "this is how we've always done it" attitude. New models and methods that are proving to be effective are cut from the budget so we can continue to fund the mess we've created. I went to Capitol Hill and spoke with Legislators, encouraging them to look at new ideas. They were nice. They smiled in agreement but they promised nothing. Many people asked for data..."give me data to show these new ideas work". My reply was, "Some of these new, effective models have only been operating on a limited, demonstration basis. Our data is limited due to the shortness of time. However, I can give you decades of data that prove what we've been doing DOES NOT WORK." They couldn't disagree with that. However, they also couldn't offer any solutions or suggestions. I'm sorry you've been caught up in this mess. My heart truly aches for the millions of other people who struggle to provide medical care for their families. This country spends more than any other country on health care and yet our system is one of the least effective. That is wrong. Very, very wrong. Sorry for the rant. Your story hit a nerve.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:08am.

Gordon

We have been sorting out health insurance stuff with our move and ran into the same thing. Because I take Wellbutrin and have a CPAP to deal with my sleep apnea, Blue Cross decided it would cost $2000 a month to insure Ginger and me instead of the original $660 quote they gave us.

We ended up choosing a plan, for now, with a gazillion dollar deductible just so we could have coverage starting Dec. 1.

The saga continues.

Peace,
Milton

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:08am.

Oh, I'm ready to admit that the system broke years ago.
It's bad.
My husband and I are both self-employed and have to take care of our own insurance. Thankfully we don't yet have kids to put under that.
I've heard of groups that get together and form their own "insurance." It sounds almost like a medical Acts 2 sort of deal--they all put money in a pot and help each other out rather than relying on insurance. I'm ready to start looking at that, I think.
Heather Goodman

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:24am.

Been there -- when the loving husband was laid off about 6 years ago -- right as I began a very expensive stint as a grad student. We somehow paid the COBRA payments for 5 months until I could get them on the university's system; even with pre-existing conditions, since they were insured, it was easier to get them insured in a different plan (sort of a roll-over).

The LH now has a great job -- but the insurance is lousy. It's not an insurance company, but a claims-denial service.

I now qualify for a really good plan with the church BUT they won't pay it b/c it's "expensive" -- about $500 a month for the 4 of us. I would pay it out of pocket but that's against the rules. It's all just a big stinking load of shit.

We can't afford to be without insurance -- as 2 sick kids and 2 ER hospital visits this mont alone will prove. A big load of stinking shit.

If the insurance execs get sick, do you think THEY lack benefits??

RM

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:32am.

Man, I'll never complain about my insurance premiums again.

Marcus

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:53am.

Yeah--I've been having problems with mine, too. I work as a temp, which means they offer me insurance, but it's terrible and covers nothing. From what I can tell, I pay them over $1000 a year and they cover only up to $1250 of medical expenses. I came home last night from a visit with a surgeon to schedule me for gallbladder removal since I had an attack so bad I wound up in the ER in October, only to find a letter from my insurance company basically telling me that they were only covering $100 of the ER visit, and I was responsible for the other $600, and that they won't cover any more outpatient, surgical, or doctor's visits.

Now I'm trying to figure out what to do, since paying out of pocket for this surgery ($8000+) would send my partner and I to the poorhouse, and not getting it may kill me. There are tears to go around at my house right now.

~alsafi

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:11pm.

Not sure if this will help, but I had a similar issue with my gallbladder surgery. I had insurance but it was crappy student insurance and I had the surgery right as I was graduating from Grad school and before I got a job. I discovered (by crying on the phone to the the billing office) that my hospital and most of my doctors were willing to write off 90% or so of the remaining expenses based on my circumstances. There was paperwork--it actually felt a lot like a grant application, but in the end I ended up paying a relativity affordable amount.

I did all of this after the fact because my surgery was of an emergency nature and it took awhile to finally get squared away, but it's something to think about.

Submitted by iandunn on November 30, 2007 - 5:04pm.

And even if you don't qualify for any discounts, I think a lot of places will put you on a no-interest payment plan.

My company doesn't give me any insurance, and it's too expensive independently, so I haven't had any for a couple of years. I'm otherwise perfectly healthy, but about 6 months ago I had a seizure and was taken to the ER, had a CT scan and EEG and a few doctors visits. The bills totaled around $6,000 (even though they didn't find anything wrong, and basically just gave me a bed to lie in a for a few hours). I didn't qualify for any discounts (even though that's about 20% of my yearly income), but I've been on no-interest payments plans for all of them. I should have them paid off within 2 years.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 7, 2007 - 6:44pm.

Read this article from BusinessWeek:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_49/b4061001.htm

It's basically about medical providers turning over collections to mainstream credit businesses who charge interest on the balance. Unfortunately, it seems that it is the nonprofit providers who are turning to this more often as they have higher non-payment rates.

It's a sad sad state of affairs. I personally do not favor a single payer system as in the UK but definitely consider the need for universal health coverage (at a cost reasonable for each person/family) to be a top priority of the nation. Unfortunately, medical care is one area where pure capitalism does NOT always produce the best solution for all. All residents of the US benefit from everyone having consistent and high quality physical and mental health care.

-Kristina

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 1, 2007 - 8:00pm.

The Hill-Burton Act will often pay hospital bills for people in dire circumstances. A friend of mine from church who is self-employed (The wife is on disability.) had heart bypass surgery and a valve replacement. The HB Act paid over $150,000 on their hospital bill. They still have to pay the doctors, but they won't lose everything they have.
My husband and I have been so incredibly blessed to have good insurance all of our working lives--two of our grown sons have been without from time to time, but thankfully were okay--and they now have insurance. I am working now so that I can have the retired teacher insurance from the time I am 60 to 65, because the coverage I have through my husband will end when he goes on Medicare.
I cannot believe how many people are against "socialized medicine," but have no qualms about taking their Medicare coverage when the time comes. Surely they know that the small amount a retiree pays does not nearly cover the cost of coverage, and that our taxes are paying for the Medicare program. I know that the government healthcare programs in Europe and Canada are not perfect, but at least people have some guarantee of coverage in emergency situations and can get in line for other necessary needs.
Compassionate Conservatism has failed the American people in this instance. I want a president and congress that will give all Americans the same degree of health care coverage they get.

Submitted by Pascale Soleil on November 30, 2007 - 11:58am.

Welcome to my world (alas). I've been uninsured for years. So far, knock wood, I've been reasonably healthy, but I've put off all sorts of medical stuff because of the expense.

I'm glad you've come up with a solution you can afford.

Pascale's Wager

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:08pm.

*sigh* Yeah, my husband just got moved from full-time benefitted employee to contractor with no benefits, and I've absolutely been dreading trying to get insurance through my job. I started on psych meds about 6 months ago, while under his insurance, and last month dealt with an extremely nasty case of arthritis out of the blue (I've never had it before!). I don't know if this will make me uninsurable or just expensive.

We can continue with COBRA for ~$600 per month. That's beginning to look like a bargain. :(

Have you seen Sicko? I think it's one of Michael Moore's best movies - not as much grandstanding as previous movies, and the truth only seems to be fudged a bit in a few places. It makes an excellent case for socialized health care, in spite of its faults.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:11pm.

This is such a familiar experience. Mike has asthma, so it's incredibly difficult to get health insurance. Work six months, get COBRA (at that incredibly high price) for 2 years, go back and work for six months.

It's not like we don't work. We're self-employed. We work harder than most people, but we have SUCH a hard time getting insurance.

Through some sort of strange miracle, we got health insurance the last time our COBRA ran out. I don't know how we qualified. They won't pay for any of Mike's asthma drugs, but it's WAY cheaper than COBRA.

We have been lucky this time, but I'm constantly worried that they will drop us and I will be looking for a secretary job again...

Laura Moncur

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:12pm.

I'm so relieved to hear that you've found a health insurance solution.

I'm another one who went through a health care mess. My husband quit a job with great health insurance to become self-employed, so we switched to my company's (much less extensive and much more expensive) insurance. Then I left that company for a one-man firm who paid me a lot more but had no group insurance. We were turned down for independent insurance with the Blues because of my weight and arthritis, and my son's ADHD. We were on Cobra for an extended period, thank goodness paid by my new employer (and at least it was much less than yours at $1000/month for the four of us). Then my husband had a terrible accident, was hospitalized for two weeks, and died. His $126,000 hospital bill was denied by the insurance company because the accident happened while he was working, and they had an exception stating they wouldn't cover work-related accidents. Their reasoning was that he should have had workers' comp to cover it - except that our insurance company told us he was ineligible for workers' comp as a sole proprietor. Last week, after two years of investigation and bargaining, my lawyer told me we've exhausted all options and I am stuck with the bill. The hospital graciously reduced the bill by 50%, so now I "only" owe them $63K - more than my entire year's gross salary.

At least I now have a job with group health insurance again. But the whole health insurance question definitely limits what types of jobs I can take.

I agree with everyone else here. Our country's health care system is crap, and we need a national solution.

Karen from Pittsburgh

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 2, 2007 - 7:02pm.

Karen, I just wanted to say I'm sorry that you lost your husband.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:21pm.

Check this out this Christian alternate to insurance: http://www.chministries.org/
Watch the intro video and read through their last newsletter: http://www.chministries.org/newsletters/CHMNov2007.pdf

Shane Claiborne talkes about this when he speaks and wrote about it in his book "The Irresistable Revolution."

Michael Honza
http://mchonza.wordpress.com/

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:33pm.

I thought I'd heard all the insurance horror stories until I read RLP today.

Yup, the system is broken. And if it doesn't get fixed, a lot of people basically are screwed. I'm a civil servant contemplating retirement in the next few years, and have no idea what's going to happen in retirement, insurance-wise. But I know what's not going to happen: I will *not* pay thousands of dollars a year for insurance premiums. Better to save that money for more worthwhile causes than grossly-overpaid insurance-company CEOs. (I'm single with no kids so this decision might be easier for me than for many others.) If I die a few years sooner because of the "million-dollar heart attack," so be it.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:52pm.

System may be broken, but ya'll want the government to run our system?

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:49pm.

Yes

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 11:43pm.

I know this argument. The government? Couple of things: You really can hardly get much more broken than we are now. The biggest issue is the size of the pool from which you draw. With so many plans, the pools are small. If you have a business group with 25 people, that might be the size of your pool. Depends on the insurance. With a national plan, the pool is the size of the nation, so everyone can be covered since there are so many healthy people in it. We all pay for it in taxes.

Watch Sicko. I know Michael Moore is over the top, but he's got it right in this movie.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 2, 2007 - 8:18pm.

Moore did in fact nail it. Run, don't walk and see this film.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 2:09pm.

Man, I hope your credibility is insured, because giving Michael Moore as a source just about killed it. Bringing him up is nothing but divisive. Next time find some other source that says the same thing.

Our system is not fair for everyone, and that's a shame. But it IS the best system in the world. That depresses me to even write that. I have been very fortunate to have worked for companies that cover me. I know I am no more deserving that anyone else and that truly, there but for the grace of God....

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 5:15pm.

Which world do you live in?

Submitted by rlp on December 3, 2007 - 10:06pm.

You can't possibly have any idea of what health care is like in England and Canada and make that statement. You must be living with old ideas of the dangers of socialized medicine.

I have a friend who just got here having lived in England for a number of years. Their system cannot even be compared to ours. Sick people get taken care of without losing their life savings. We can't do that. End of argument.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 4, 2007 - 10:23am.

But it IS the best system in the world.

err no !

Submitted by Anonymous User (not verified) on December 18, 2007 - 11:26pm.

I live in Canada.

Health care is free.

My premiums are about $50.00 per month, paid by my employer.

I don't worry about being on prescriptions because I know it won' tcost me money to go to the doctor, and I don't have to worry about being insured.

Are you sure the US has the best system in the world? I'm not saying ours is the best- it has its flaws too, but no one goes broke over doctor bills here.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 4, 2007 - 1:04pm.

I was feeling cranky when I replied yesterday and I apologize for being rude (I was the one who asked what world the poster lived in). We do have the best quality health care in the world, true. I live a few miles from one of the best hospitals in the world. The problem is, many Americans do not have access to that superior health care. It's not the best system in the world if only the wealthy or fortunate can take advantage of it.

I've been blessed to have health insurance for most of my life, but I have a friend who works as hard as I do. She suffered a broken back in an accident a few years ago, then lost her health coverage due to divorce, and it took her years to find an insurance company that would cover her. The system we have is terrible.

Another facet of the insurance system we have in place is that health care providers often have a very difficult time collecting payments from insurance companies. I worked for the aforementioned hospital for a while collecting from insurance companies. They generally denied every single claim, even though they were all valid. I would sometimes have to call half a dozen times to get payment for a claim because they would keep coming up with bs reasons to deny. One I remember in particular was a rape victim who failed to get a referral from her primary to go to the emergency room. Can you imagine?

There was also one company that I won't name (generally known by its initials) that would say "A check was cut on Wednesday for that claim." I quickly learned that the check would never be mailed until I specifically asked them to mail it. Outrageous, and the reason why I HATE insurance companies.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 2, 2007 - 9:40pm.

Yes.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 2:08pm.

yes.

you would rather be looked after by companies whose sole aim is profit? at least governments must keep up the pretence of equality; they are somewhat accountable.

i have little faith in my (british) government but i firmly believe that a national health service is the only way a nation should care for its citizens. not that our nhs is perfect - a recent survey showed some people would rather pull their own teeth than visit an NHS dentist - but i know that no matter how hard times are, how poor i am, what my status is, i will never be left without some kind of medical care. how many americans can say that? every one on earth should be able to say that.

seems to be that there'll always be private options for the wealthy but a national service that everyone contributes to and can benefit from means that no one gets left behind. and it seems to me that governments are the only remotely accountable group that should be trusted with that.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 7:31pm.

Yes. At least I can vote for my representatives. I have no vote in what the insurance and big pharmas do.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 12:57pm.

What, like they do the interstates and the police and the firefighters? Sure. It would be hard-pressed to be worse than what we have now, where a few people get great healthcare, a lot a people go bankrupt, and more than 45 million of us are pretty much told to just go die in the street, since we didn't have the foresight to be born either wealthy or healthy.

~alsafi

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:08pm.

Yes! And not to mention Social Security, which is very efficiently government run and public schools and the post office and Medicare and Medicaid--the government is far more efficient at this than most private healthcare organizations are. Privatization is inefficient, unethical, and as we can all see, insurance companies and big-Pharma are only out for their own profits, at the expense of people's health and lives.

Submitted by brigid23 on November 30, 2007 - 2:51pm.

Perhaps as an advocate for people trying to *get* Social Security benefits, I'm a bit jaded. Perhaps as a former government employee, I'm just downright cynical. But I have little faith in the power of our national government to get anything done in a reasonable fashion for a reasonable price.

~ Shanti

Submitted by Larry Vaughan on November 30, 2007 - 1:44pm.

Gordon,
I work in the mental health field where over 90% of my patients are covered by the government. We cringe when we get someone with "private" insurance because these companies will not cover the services the kids need. I have had to personally escort kids to the door in tears with their terrified parents in tow with the message, "Your kid is not sick enough for your insurance company." Not so much sleep on those nights. In the upcoming election there is only one issue for me: Who will fix the healthcare problem? I don't care what they plan to do with Iraq or the economy or abortion. I want these kids covered. Period. You guys are in my thoughts. I'm good at finding a "workaround." Let me know if I can help.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 1:44pm.

National Health Insurance?.?.. Why not try prayer?

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 3:44pm.

I think a lot of people are praying about this. And God works in many ways to answer prayers - often in ways we might not expect.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 6:20pm.

Oh yes,

That ol' chestnut...

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 11:45pm.

Because that won't solve a national health care crisis. We can pray for wisdom in what we do, but this is in our hands.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 7, 2007 - 6:50pm.

Modern medicine is simply, drug it or cut it out. Orthopedics and setting fractures, sure - that's good medicine. Doctors (most all) do not treat the disease, they treat the symptoms. They are driven by the large hospitals, insurance companies and the pharmaceutical cartels. Case in point - cancer... cut it out and burn the rest out with your body and immune system taking the brunt as well. What percentage of americans are drug addicts - script from the dealer (doctor)? We live in a poisoned world and the only way to heal is through prayer and elimination of the poison - what you put into your body. Jesus is the best medicine - the King.
Look up Col. Joe
Hart Dietary Procedure Plan - http://www.coljoe.com
Email: ColJoe@specent.com
CANCER - The CURE is in FOOD
OXALIC ACID - God's Natural Chemotherapy
Pay attention to how you treat your body and pray, pray, pray, over your food, water, everything. Get simple, eat fresh organic and raw whenever you can or just eat less junk and carbinated beverages. I have been without health insurance for two years, can't afford this for my family. It sure takes a lot of faith some days. Wake up people - the system is broken and we have to learn to take care of ourselves through Him.
God Bless!

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 1:49pm.

I live in Canada, where health services are universally available to all. There are some gaps of course, and some premiums that we must pay but generally no-one can be refused medical care. As I am also employed I have a group insurance plan that covers things like prescription drugs, counselling services, para medical services like massage therapy, accupuncture, dental care, etc. This part is managed by a private company whereas the basic medical care is provided through government. In Canada there is always the argument as to whether we have a good system or not. When I hear stories like what my brothers and sisters in USA face, I joyously embrace the Canadian medicare system. It is the best sytem in the world to care for people. The US medical insurance system is broken and needs to be fixed. But it will never be fixed as long as insurance companies call the shots. The people need to speak up.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 1:55pm.

I live in Canada, where we have universal health care. First and foremost, I've seen what has happened to my friends (mostly early to mid-twenties) and I thank God that I have my relatively hassle-free insurance solution. I show them my Ontario Health Insurance Plan Card and Pow! Everything is taken care of in the hospital. Sure, I don't get all the amenities, and drug plans are a whole different ball game, but to be able to go to the hospital and not worry about paying for the bed? that's priceless to me. I'm ok with paying more taxes for ease of mind.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 7:47pm.

I third the comments about the Canadian system. it's not perfect, mostly because governments over the years have played havoc with medical school spots over the years so we have a shortage of doctors. But I didn't have to worry that I'd run out of money before my babies actually made it into the world. I didn't have to worry about staying longer than two days in the hospital after my c-sections. When I landed back in hospital, two weeks postpartum, I had no additional financial worries - I could concentrate on getting healthy for my baby and myself.

I wouldn't trade our public health care system for anything. It's worth a bit of extra taxes - and it's not much more taxes than what Americans of my income level are paying, either.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 2:27pm.

Wow, two Canadians, writing at the exact same time. I like Canada. (the above is me).

- W.D. Kinchlea

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 4, 2007 - 10:27am.

the system in Europe is pretty good too. It does vary within the EU - but people are treated, drugs are affordable and people are NEVER penalised because they are taking medication that helps them live - that includes mental health.

On the downside it's hard to get counselling through the system, that you might have to get done privately and pay for yourself - for that reason (and shame issues too) far fewer europeans get therapy or professional counselling

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:02pm.

A government run system is better than no insurance at all. RLP was close to having no insurance at all.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 3, 2007 - 11:08pm.

Not as close as many others. Most don't have the luxury of quitting the job that provides the insurance. I don't blame Jeanene one bit for what she did. She is where she is needed now. RLP didn't mention anything about his looking for a job or church that would provide insurance. Maybe he did. No matter how much his church or fans of his blog (of which I am one)think they need him, his family needs him more.
Maybe it's time to listen to the inner Foy. Not in a family-falling-apart sense, but in a ministering-where-ever-he-works-even-when-he-doesn't-feel-like-it sense.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:14pm.

Couldn't agree more. The system is a mess and it is one of my top priorities for a presidential candidate.

Possibly this will be of no help, but anyone consider a parttime job at Starbucks? I have read that they provide health insurance to all employees.

Lisa in Austin

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:31pm.

It's not just that the healthcare system is broken. It's that it's actively, deliberately sinful. It is an affront to God and to those made in his image.

Submitted by The Token Catholic on November 30, 2007 - 5:56pm.
Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 8:07pm.

This just makes me cry.

http://sonria.org

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:34pm.

Why on earth would they not insure your little girlk bc of her medication? Why should something like that make her a risk?

Im sorry, I dont understand this beuracracy stuff, so I need it explained in simple terms. Or if this question involves you beteraying your daughters privacy than forget it, I dont want you to have to do that, Im just curious...

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 11:48pm.

Well, run the numbers. Take 1000 people on medication for various emotional illnesses and 1000 who are not. I guarantee the 1000 who are not on medication are going to average more healthy care costs.

The problem is, these are our children. So this needs to be more than some guy sitting in an office running numbers. We as a nation could take care of health insurance. Heck, we found 650 billion freakin dollars for George's war.

If you leave it in the hands of private companies, they are going to let children fall through the cracks. Like my Shelby.

Submitted by brigid23 on November 30, 2007 - 2:48pm.

I went through a similar dilemma when I entered law school. I could be insured through the school or the ABA but the cost was astronomical. I opted to go without insurance for three years. I spent a fair amount of that time worrying about what would happen if I got into an accident, or even just got sick. Fortunately, those were the healthiest three years ever.
I'm current with a very small firm (less than 20 employees) and we have a great plan through Aetna that costs the firm about $250/month for individual coverage. I don't know what additional costs are for family members, but it's a better deal than I've ever seen a major insurance company offer a small company. It may be worth looking into for your church.
In addition to that, my husband works with a guy who does some weird insurance stuff where they basically lump very small businesses (in their case usually 3-5 member engineering firms) together to get good insurance plans. If you're interested, I can forward you his contact information.
Finally, you may or may not have come across this, but here in Bexar County we have CareLink. It's a fantastic program for low-income and no-income people that allows them to get health care (physical AND mental!), medication and even surgery if necessary for little to no cost. Houston has a similar program called the Gold Card. As much of a complete and total mess as our "health care system" is, I am heartened by cities that take matters into their own hands and do what they can to help their residents.

~ Shanti

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 2:52pm.

I kind of resent when people talk about the insured not caring about reforming the health coverage system in America. I'm insured, and I can barely pay my medical bills as is. I'm all for "health care reform"

It's not so much that health care is a right, people deserve it.

I also don't buy the small minded individuals who are terrified of the government running any social system (in this case health care)

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 3:41pm.

There are a few ways congress could help us here, but they won't and I'm still at a loss to figure out why. I'm not sure I'm gung ho about a completely nationalized system, but I'm perfectly fine with a catch-all insurance plan (or even plans) for _anyone_ who wishes to opt-in (like someone who is currently in your shoes).

Additionally, congress could get rid of the stupid 7% rule and make all health care tax credit-able. So every dime you put into health care is one dime you don't pay of tax, and if it cost you too much, you'd get that back too.

Thirdly, these cases of pre-existing conditions causing so much trouble need to go away. Congress could tell the insurance companies that they may not use that data to separate people, basically taking anything being treated as "cured". Let them separate out the guy who drinks too much and weighs 400 pounds and refuses to diet, but everything else should simply vanish from their eyes.

Insurance companies complain that those kind of regulations would prevent them from making money. Let me tell you, Banks have to deal with that much and then some, and they can know very little about the average customer, and yet, they're making money hand over fist. The insurance companies could deal. Congress just needs to put them to task.

Its definately time that Congress starts solving problems instead of making more problems.

-Way2Tired.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 3:50pm.

One of the reasons I sooooo want to quit being a pastor. It is a thankless job with no real tangible benefits. Who the hell cares about "the eternal rewards" when your fuck sick on earth and can't make a decent living - and can't find decent health insurance to boot!

God, please let us elect a democrat into office in 2008 so we can turn this country around!!!

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 6:19pm.

The Democrats are just as bad. Seriously.

Ron Paul seems good.

Colbert would be best!

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 1, 2007 - 9:57pm.

Um, I doubt Ron Paul = fixed health care. He basically wants to dismantle the national government, so unless states want to take on the entire health care crisis (like MA has, seemingly successfully so far), Ron Paul would only make things much much worse. Although a question on MA, where they require people to get health care - what do they do about the people who get rejected like RLP? Just if anyone knows.

I know the one argument that's made about the Canadian and UK health care systems not being able to be used in the US because the US is "too big" is false. The Canadian system, where the feds distribute the money and the states implement the plan, seems to work pretty well.

Submitted by FluffyN on November 30, 2007 - 4:13pm.

This is so scary. I'm glad you were able to work something out, RLP. I wish I had known about this when I was in college. I would never have sought treatment for depression and anxiety if I knew it might one day jeopardize my family's insurance eligibility. :(

Submitted by atticus on November 30, 2007 - 5:24pm.

Sicko was a wonderful documentary about this very issue....with what we see down here in the rio grande valley and the number of uninsured, it hit home. i just loved his sardonic approach. our system sucks. it really does. we have a free clinic in the city here that we thought would help the poorest of the poor, those from mexico, but instead it covers many of the middle class who are between jobs and insurance. we need a voucher system for people to go anywhere for their medical needs. it's a basic human right.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 6, 2007 - 5:56am.

This reminds me of a post I read on LiveJournal the other day. This guy was complaining that his rights were being violated because the (U.S.) government taxed him and spent the money on education. He didn't feel a government should provide *anything* to its citizens, not basic education, not law enforcement, nothing. Everyone should have to pay for their own schooling, etc. Then about 8 of his friends logged on and agreed with him completely.

Then I saw someone's MySpace rant which said that fat, elderly, and "depressed emo kids" shouldn't be allowed to be on health insurance because they didn't deserve health care at any price. Many people agreed, as though it was just plain common sense.

These are the kinds of people who vote in elections, my friends. These are the reasons we don't have national health care, because deep down most people are ignorant, greedy, selfish and unwilling to educate themselves on the issues.

Submitted by The Token Catholic on November 30, 2007 - 5:59pm.

I feel your pain. I've had crappy student insurance--that doesn't really pay anything--and if something catastrophic happens, I have no clue what I'd do.

http://bigumuse.blogspot.com

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 6:34pm.

True. All of it. I'm a former exec/business manager with a hospital network, and the sad fact is they could care less about your well-being. Individuals sometimes care, physicians and nurses, but the institution is all about making money and getting you out as quickly as possible so third party reimbursement gives them the greatest profit margin per patient service. So they shove you out asap, and they make money. Tons of it. If you don't believe me, ask for an annual report for the closest not-for-profit hospital in your area. They have to provide it to you! Check out the bottom line.

But folks there is no ground swell of support for radical changes. From those losers in our government? I mean, honestly, the only candidates that will even broach the subject in a realistic way are those we look at as "fringe" and "unelectable" (Ron Paul?) And any other candidate will just gently massage the existing system...and believe me when I tell you that subtle changes ALWAYS favor the insurance firms and hospitals. And the media isn't going to lead the demand for decision-making information; they're more interested in whether or not Brittany Spears is wearing panties than beating the drum for candidate's ideas. And incidentally, the ideas are already "out there". There is "capitation, paid for by tax dollars", "total privitization paid for through government vouchers for basic services", "pay for performance systems for physicians who will agree to payment schedules via clinical, numerical credentialing", and, of course, "medicare for all." And that just scratches the surface. Viable plans already exist. But healthcare lobbies are powerful, powerful entities and they like things just the way they are.

Trust me when I tell you the system has been broken for YEARS. "Self pay" patients (uninsured) pay HIGHER rates, significantly higher rates, than those that have insurance coverage. Don't believe me? Medicare payments are generally only about 43% on the dollar. BUT your bill says they paid 100% of your inpatient stay. Federal law. Medicaid? Pays slightly less than Medicare. Worker's Compensation? Nope, contract basis only. Self-insured groups? No, repriced by Third Party Administrators. For example, a typical insurance "contract" pays a lowered fee, LESS an average "contractual allowance" of about a 35% discount. But the uninsured, regardless of the reason? You guess it, 100% of charges. Those that can least afford it pay more for their care than ANY covered person, regardless of coverage. And physician don't have to accept the uninsured. The nightmares I could tell you would startle even the most jaded.

Yes, it's a national travesty and an embarrassment for "the greatest country on earth." I still work in healthcare, but I just couldn't take the perpetual lying to the public, and the insane levels of profit-making pressure anymore. So I got out of the acute care game. And what happened shortly after I left? Wife develops a brain tumor, and has a $300,000 surgery. I understand the plight.

I'm with you folks. Something has to be done. But does any of us "really" think the leaders we have in Washington are up to this task? Sorry, but I don't.

Bill

Submitted by atticus on November 30, 2007 - 6:42pm.

someone willing to try has my vote, and that is not a popular sentiment here in the south
seriously, we need to do something DIFFERENT
and we need to start somewhere

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 7:06pm.

I love my Canadian health care!! Had a little motorbike mishap this summer, a little surgery (ok, screws and plates) and hospital stay, my total bill? $20 'cause I had to pay for my arm sling.

Hope you brothers and sisters get your system fixed.

Don in stratford, ontario.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 7:41pm.

We just finished a discussion (on another board) about the Canadian medical system, and how a "runty" little Baptist preacher in a coal-mining town in Saskatchewan managed to turn the whole Canadian idea over into medical coverage for everyone. Despite his congregation being largely those damn immigrants. Despite the Depression. Despite the worshippers of money and power, who led the doctors out on strike.

Tommy Douglas, and his fellow social-justice preachers, persuaded the whole country that Medicare was the way to go.

Yes, we have delays. Yes, we have what amounts to rationing. But it is the same for everyone, just like Christianity. And it emphasises the Second Great Commandment - come on! You knowit, even if you don't do it: "love your neighbour".

When is the Most Christian Country In The World going to catch up with the rest of the world and start actually doing what it preaches?

When are the preachers going to move past "an SUV in every garage" and face their own Scriptures?

What's the problem down there?

I could point out that we have everyone covered for basic care for tax rates that are just about the same as your normal tax rates, even though we do pay for our health care.

(Of course, we don't try to conquer the world, which probably helps.)

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 4, 2007 - 10:31am.

thank God for someone who cared enough to take on a defunct system.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 7:48pm.

We get what we want in America. We vote for the congress, the executive, and much of the more local judicial representation. We all have opportunity to voice our concerns to our representatives.

If I'm not mistaken, it has been the "values voters" that have consistently demonized any form of a "socialized" medicine discussion--instantly equated with Socialism--in a word.

For all who have complained about the "unfairness" in the insurance situation, I would suggest that you remember who you voted for over the last 7 years and hope you've learned something--get over your dogmatic fear of national health care.

Quit listening to the 30 second TV right-wing sound-bites regarding gays and lesbians and abortion and flag-lapel-wearing and God forbid the government "entitles" you to something you haven't worked for and earned in some Puritan sense of the word.

Consider that a week in an ICU will send you and me to bankruptcy-- postpone your dreams of the "afterlife" for a second, and vote for someone with a head on their shoulders who isn't more concerned about how much of the Bible they can quote on national debates.

Sorry for the rant, Jeff P

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 4, 2007 - 11:23am.

Jeff,
I'm with you, brother, but thanks to the electoral college system, I and a lot of other people I know, like, hey, the majority of people in the country in the 2000 election, don't get what we vote for.

Harper

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 5, 2007 - 7:46pm.

Harper, thanks--electoral college noted! I truly truly wish we would do away with it. What served in the beginnings of the republic as a way to insure that smaller states would receive representation in the broader strokes of the government--has now actually demonstrably defeated what the majority of Americans vote for... I hope in my lifetime we'll see an end to the electoral college.

You can rest assured my vote will not be with someone preaching the merit of their "moral values," but who will move us forward in a dialogue that supports the most needy of us in this country.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 9:59pm.

Heidi here... I bought a book not so long ago. I'm the house with the pool and the big ol' dog in the back. :)

I wanted to thank you for posting this. My husband recently quit his job to start his own company and while that has (so far) been successful, our search for health insurance hadn't been so fruitful. He takes beta blockers and most insurance companies didn't want to provide him any heart related coverage for 10 months or more.

It never even occurred to us to just keep him on cobra while getting new coverage for the rest of the family. Keeping him under group coverage means that when it comes time to purchase group coverage under his new company - he'll still be covered. Another absolute benefit is that his prescription coverage remains good. In fact, that makes the cost difference pretty much a wash given the cost of his meds each month.

So that's what we worked out today after reading your post. Thanks for posting. Thanks to your daughter for allowing you to share. You've helped us today.

- H

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 11:50pm.

Oh, I'm so glad!

Submitted by revscott on November 30, 2007 - 10:03pm.

G,
This sucks in so many ways that I don't even have words for it. Is there anything any of us can do for you, besides prayer?

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2007 - 11:52pm.

Thanks.

Vote for candidates who pledge to move us toward a national health care system. We're fine now. I mean, we're going to pay out the nose, but we can swing $900 a month. It's going to hurt and mean we tighten the belt, but having looked into the abyss of no coverage, my priorities are a little different.

Submitted by digory on November 30, 2007 - 10:29pm.

RLP, you are obviously preaching to the choir. My wife, who has brain cancer, and I are both with the Texas Risk Pool. I was turned down by BCBS because I had a migraine every so often and took xanax for anxiety related to my wife's illness.
I did find out later that you can appeal to a supervisor at BC and possibly get some action.
The ironic thing is this whole gov't push towards "mental health". What with their screenings, ect., they want us to get help. However, if you ever do, goodbye insurance. What a crock of shit!
If more people knew that before they opened up to salesmen regardig their medical history, they would LIE.
Maybe gov rick and other legislators will give us some of the money hangning out of their back pockets from the Trans Texas Corridor robbery.
How's that for a rant.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:40pm.

we have three kids and one on the way via adoption (a third-world adoption, the child will inevitably have some degree of health need); i was pastoring a small sbc church. for all the right reasons I left to another denomination. what i wasn't expecting was the great denominational open enrollment insurance we were to receive with this move, and that is worth more than any financial incentive that could offered to us. when you have a family on the line, you feel so exposed and vulnerable; it's a shame that politicians haven't gotten this done before now.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2007 - 11:41pm.

I fear that it's a political football that's tossed around...but it's worth a shot! and when one is in the ministry, sometimes lively hood and benefits seems like such a crap shoot, and that must be the way that so many of us feel like in our country.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 1, 2007 - 12:46am.

That is really unfortunate RLP. Sorry you are having to go through this situation.

I have one question though: If we nationalize health care then where is the incentive for pharma companies to develop new drugs? It costs billions of dollars and up to 10 years to develop new drugs and then when they are finished the government will offer them pennies on the dollar. They won't be able to pay for it. Maybe it's not a bad thing that the pharma companies will go out of business, but then again I wouldn't have the Advair I take for my breathing condition. I'm not sure there is a good solution to this problem. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing.

Submitted by rlp on December 1, 2007 - 1:12am.

If we nationalize health care, why would that affect drug production? We'll still need the drugs. In fact, more people will have access to them.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 2, 2007 - 3:12pm.

Most "new drugs" that big pharma comes up with aren't really "new" at all. They just wring small changes on existing drugs, then patent them and make a fortune. I've worked for pharmaceutical companies (as they're the major employers in my area) for years now and that's not the exception, that's the RULE. This "incentive" you think is there does NOTHING for "new" drugs. The pharmaceuticals base their research on what will bring in the most money. They don't care about "new" or even "useful". Just "profitable".