Dear RLP

November 28, 2005 - 1:31pm

Dear RLP,

I was wondering if you might be able to clarify something for me. The pastor at my church said something this weekend that has bothered me. He is doing a series on King Solomon and was talking about Solomon’s greed. My pastor mentioned that God will judge him. I was under the impression that God doesn’t judge. Can you help me with this?

Sherrie

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Dear Sherrie,

Before I answer you, can we both agree that no one knows exactly what God thinks? You know that I’m a minister, so perhaps you think that I know a lot about God. Well, I don’t.

I also know that many people say the Bible teaches us a lot about God and what God thinks, but this makes me very uncomfortable. The Bible does say things about God’s nature, but it also preserves the mystery of God. I am convinced that the intelligence who created the cosmos is far beyond anything I can ever understand.

And if you think about it, would you really be interested in a God we COULD understand?

I can tell you things the Bible says about God, and they are things that I believe. However, I always keep in mind that in many Bible stories people are very surprised when they actually encounter God in their lives. God often turns up in unexpected ways and in places where we’d least expect to find God.

I also want you to remember that the pictures of God that are found in the Bible can never be anything more than simplistic, shadowy approximations of the real God. This is something about the Bible that you must understand. This collection of books bears the incredible burden of having to speak about God to all races, all ages, the illiterate as well as those with Ph.D.s, and to a vast number of cultures, some that date well before the age of science.

Keeping all that in mind, I can tell you that the Bible says that God does indeed judge us. Perhaps you have some rather negative ideas about judgment. Maybe you’ve been judged harshly yourself. I understand why that word has negative connotations nowadays. But when we speak of the judgment of God, it is another way of saying that God understands some things to be right and others wrong. If God knows what is righteous, how can God not judge us when we do things that work against what is right and good?

But if the God of scripture judges us, the Bible also makes it clear that this God loves and forgives us. The love and forgiveness of God also exist in a measure that is utterly beyond our ability to understand. The Bible speaks of God KNOWING us, and uses that word in a very broad and ancient way. To be known by God is to be known completely. So the God who knows when we are wrong is the same God who loves and forgives us beyond measure.

If we tried to put God into an idea that you and I can understand, we might say that God is like someone who knows all of your faults but loves you anyway. Loves you enough to die for you.

I think that idea works pretty well, don’t you? The story behind that idea is in the Bible as well.

So whether or not God was angry with Solomon for the deep hunger of his greed or for the weakness that led him to desire a thousand wives, it seems that God’s capacity to love runs as deep as God’s capacity to know a good or a bad thing when He sees it.

Peace,

rlp

Used with permission from Sherrie.

Submitted by Josh on November 28, 2005 - 3:38pm.

Joshua
 
RLP - thanks for this comment.  I needed to hear the "love" part, as I've been concentrating a bit too hard on the "judge" part recently.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 28, 2005 - 3:39pm.

I think Will D. Campbell said it best when he told a friend: "We're all bastards but God loves us anyway."

peace,

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 28, 2005 - 4:55pm.

God probably does judge us. OTOH, there's absolutely no evidence He's ever sent anyone to Hell.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 28, 2005 - 6:54pm.

The first definition of "to judge" from the American Heritage dictionary:

"To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character."

"To judge" has become so synonymous with "to punish" that sometimes we forget that they're separate. That if we're to be judged, then of course we're to be punished as well.

But (and I say this as someone who doesn't read the bible much, nor identify with being Christian of any denomination, but still thinks a lot about God), if God is Everything, then God must contain Anger as well as Love, Hurt as well as Joy, and God must of course understand them in us, and forgive us our trespasses.

I'm not sure how I can explain it any more than that, and I know it's a poor drop of logic there. But I'm still working on it.

-Eain

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 28, 2005 - 8:10pm.

What a wonderful, eloquent response to a complex query. Thank you so much for that.

--Shari

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 29, 2005 - 12:30am.

I love the Dear RLP's. We need a Dear RLP section.

Submitted by Virtual Doug on November 29, 2005 - 5:22am.

Ah - this is the RLP I remember. Its been awhile since you've posted "the good stuff", Preacher.

BTW - the Will Campbell quote posted by another commenter has been of my favorite ways to describe God for many years.

Submitted by Lauren on November 29, 2005 - 6:37am.

I'm all for the previous comment about adding or at least regularly including a "Dear RLP" section to your blog.  You do an exceptional job of providing explanations (to readers' questions) which fit well within a dialogue of "consensusal Christianity" -- all while avoiding any hint of dogma and frankly admitting the limitations with which we must approach such questions. 
Thank you!
Lauren

Submitted by ChazEk on November 29, 2005 - 6:45am.

I agree with what RLP said in his reply. The church has clearly gone overboard sometimes in emphasizing the judgment side of the Word. But, there are passages spoken by Jesus that seem to indicate there will be judgment, even harsh judgment. The criteria under which we will be judged are not what is often taught. See Matthew 25:31-46 for example.

Chaz

Submitted by harper on November 29, 2005 - 7:40am.

One of the Berrigan brothers wrote that Jesus' mercy is his judgement. I often think about this. In some ways it seems much easier for us to accept an idea of being punished by God than to accept God's mercy. To accept mercy cuts right to the root of our pride. We want control so badly we figure we know better than God. It's much easier to go on about how rotten we are; how deserving of God's negative judgement we are, than to become soft enough, open enough to accept God's "hesed" in Hebrew; God's steadfast love and mercy.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 29, 2005 - 1:05pm.

Gordon,

Amen! I love the tactful and kind way that you have dealt with this question, as it is so easy for us to explain judgment (through self-righteousness) in such a way that leaves the hearer feeling condemned by us and with the impression that we somehow know thier heart and/or are somehow qualified to judge it because we can given a 'right' response. For the sake of brevity, I'll take the rest of my response to my blog, so that my readers can drink in this wonderful response. Thank you again for the fine example here.

Brad

Submitted by practitioner45 on November 30, 2005 - 11:43am.

CM Where is your blog? I would like to read the rest of your response to RLP.

Submitted by rlp on November 30, 2005 - 12:26pm.

Brad, what is your blog address?

Submitted by reverendmother on November 29, 2005 - 1:44pm.

This is a good response. I would add one thing--that God the Judge is also God the *Judged*--that is, in the crucifixion we see Jesus taking on the judgment of the world. The God who governs all things is also the God who empties Godself, voluntarily entering into the reality of human suffering.

I have many, many issues with the crucifixion and atonement. I don't claim to understand it and aspects of it are deeply troubling. But the idea that the One who judges us was himself judged--that helps put God's judgment in perspective for me.

Submitted by rbarenblat on November 29, 2005 - 2:28pm.

Good stuff, RLP. In my tradition we talk about judgment and lovingkindness/mercy as two of God's divine qualities which balance each other; we call them gevurah and chesed. Too much of either one of them, and the world wouldn't work right.

I'm occasionally guilty of choosing to focus on the mercy and turn away from the judgment; the notion of God-as-judge makes me uncomfortable sometimes. But I like the way you've framed it. Thanks.

***
"Why write unless you praise the sacred places?" -- Richard Howard

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2005 - 6:49pm.

rlp, have you ever heard of the Bema judgment? If so, what do you think of that teaching? Might that be what Sherrie's pastor was speaking of?

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 1, 2005 - 4:17pm.

Gordon,

We know each other, sorry that I didn't sign in (or here) when I left that note - and well, this one too.

http://www.brokenmessenger.com

Brad

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 6, 2005 - 2:06am.

RLP,

Is this forgiveness contingent on anything? You make it sound like a done deal.

Brendan

Submitted by rlp on December 6, 2005 - 8:25am.

Brendan, I know that I left out the very important part of the Christian message that tells us that our forgiveness is paid for by the death of Jesus Christ. I sensed that I was dealing with someone for whom even the idea that God judges us was new. I chose to point to both judgment and forgiveness in the scriptures without getting too detailed about how that happens. This is her journey, and she will need to get the rest of the story from someone in person.
 
I really don't take on the full burden of discipleship here. In this context I am a writer. I also feel that the gospel is best communicated person to person.

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 21, 2005 - 10:53am.

RLP, sorry I'm coming to this discussion late, but I have a follow up question (which the previous comment has gotten at). Could you expand a little bit on exactly how you see the death of Christ applying to folks like Sherrie? I've got a few concerns w/ what you HAVEN'T stated, and I'd love to have you clarify a bit (because I think it is a big deal). This isn't a criticism per se - I just want to know what you think.

Peace,
Christian