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Then of course there's the lovely bit about Samuel and Agag, the king of the Amalekites, which takes place just before Samuel annoints David: "And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal."

We didn't read that passage in Sunday school

Congratulations on the HEB job! We live in the area (Boerne), so I'm very familiar with all HEB does, but didn't know about their "Higher Calling" site. It looks like a great resource.

I know your writing will be a popular feature for them.

You said "behold".

I don't know why that strikes me as funny.

notarev

So here's the question - could it be that God gave the Israelites what THEY wanted in Saul, and then when that failed (as perhaps God could see would happen), God used Samuel to choose who GOD wanted this time, someone who didn't fit the pattern?

heartforyouth

Great stuff. I wonder why about Saul too.

I think God chose Saul because God wanted to show the people what would happen if they were given the kind of leader they were demanding. God didn't want them to have a king. They weren't going to be that kind of people. They wanted to be empire-like. So God gave them a muscle-headed brute.

kgp

I dunno, I always thought Saul started out ok and then got warped by his new-found power. Could God have seen that coming? Probably. Was he willing to give Saul the choice? That's certainly in keeping with the rest of God's pattern. Sometimes we choose wrong, and there are consequences to it. God took the same risk with David, it just worked out better (according to the historians, anyway).

Saul? God's choice? Yeah, I suppose so. But here we have that age-old dilemma of God's choice and free will (which he gives us as part of his choice) butting heads against each other. I'm never going to solve that one, and I don't feel like buying into a systematic theology to try to do so. I think that we do well to pick up on the main lessons in Saul's story for us to learn. Oh, yeah, I still look on the outward appearance--bummer! But at least I'm being stung in my conscience a little more about it now.

Of course, the substitute king, David, also goes wrong -- adultery, murder, hubris, not too mention bad parenting skills! -- but evidently his passion for God was enough to keep him coming back and repenting and trying to do right. So he also is among the flawed characters (mixtures of good and evil) like Saul, but never ultimately despairs.

Perhaps it was this quality that God saw and Samuel was not quite ready to see until he was taught to see it.

Of course, Samuel himself seems to be a flawed character, resorting to subterfuge to get to Bethlehem, and hewing Agag into pieces. In fact, every single character in the OT and almost all in the NT are plainly flawed and sinful folks (even the righteous ones)
[The 2 exceptions, at least as portrayed, are Jesus and Mary -- and even Jesus comes across as impatient at times] One of the great things about the bible is that it is not prettied up very much (or even when it is, the disguise job is so poorly done, you can still see the human failings).

My first thoughts were that what the writer is saying is, maybe God made a mistake with Saul in the first place. But then, as is pointed out, God gave his children what he thought they wanted, and he ought to know. Demonstrating no one in particulars propensity toward error, but humanity's shortcomings. If God gives us what He thinks we want - and as I said He should know - perhaps it is up to us to think harder about what it is we want, make it clear to ourselves and to God and then ask God if we are right. Then we wait. Both for an answer and for what we want. Which are not always the same thing.