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that is awesome. The Church needs more pastors who don't put up with the shit that goes on in most churches

Good for Tom. I spent 20 years in full time ministry and then have been on the outs for the divorce thing for about three years. I am now preaching part time and the Bible class I am in let me teach again just recently. Churches are hard on divorced ministers. Why can't they see our hearts instead of just our marital status?

Yea for Tom--for grace and resilience. Fun "June wedding" theme too. In your earlier post, you said 2 weddings stood out for you. Will you ever tell us about the other one?

Gordon,

You know that I have followed how Tom has been doing since his "ejection" by the church in which he used to pastor. Tell him that I am so glad for him and proud of him. Thank you for giving him a place to heal and grow - thank God for mercy and wide places of love and life. My "ejection" taught me to not put up with church shit too.

Pete

ah, redemption - beautiful, beautiful, beautiful! thank you for sharing!

Good for Tom that he was . . . . dear god, what is the groom wearing!?

One of the things that's struck me the most since I first started reading your blog is the similarity between church stuff and any other stuff. In order to do a good job at what I do, I have to care more about the work than the job--which means showing up to the job willing to walk out every day. I don't always manage the attitude (especially when money is even tighter than usual), but things work better when I do.

Am I reading this entry right if I'm taking away from it that Tom is now caring more about the work than the job?

As the saying goes, "One door opens as another closes". This is a fine example of church at it's worst and at it's best, as I know only too well.

Michael

Hurrah for Tom. What a grace-filled day, the day he came to your church. He looks, well, positively JOYOUS.

I do remember Tom's story from way back. And I remember feeling horrified that the church took such action. Unlike you, I don't feel nearly as accepting of the church's theology. Do they eject everyone from membership if their spouse dumps them? There are certainly things I don't like about my denomination (United Methodist)but at least they don't throw out their ministers for making the same mistakes fifty percent of the population at large make - I have several divorced UMC pastor friends who are still pastoring churches.

But that wasn't the point of the story, was it? The point is that your community provided Tom a place to heal and to return to his true vocation. Thanks be to God for places where the body of Christ really is just that.

oops, forgot to log in -- this is harper

The best pastor I've ever had the privilege of knowing was a divorced former-Baptist Presbyterian. Without his influence in my childhood, and without the teaching and leading he provided--along with the 'teaching and leading' of those who left our Upright Church in 1972 when he was hired in spite of {gasp!} being divorced, and {GASP!!} remarrying--I doubt I'd have any faith in churches at all.

I love the superball analogy. I'm taking it to our next Session meeting for Body Life. OK with you?

Blessings on Tom for bouncing. The photo cracks me up: Old School, and New School. And deep, deep joy across the entire frame.

--Lora in IL

Having just been "eliminated" from my church, still licking the wounds, I can identify with this. thanks.

RLP, be careful.

Look at what you wrote here. For part of the post, you're talking about something that God defines - being a pastor - but you talk about it only in the terms of men. God is perfect, people are imperfect. We screw up everything we touch when we do it in our own strength and in our own way.

Take this, for example: "I have no quarrel with their right to their own theology and practice. Their theology is their business, and they must do church in a way that seems right to them."

No! We absolutely must not "do church" in a way that seems right to us. Things of the church should never be of "their own theology and practice", they must always be of God's theology and intent. At least it must be that way if we intend to faithfully follow God's instruction to us in His Word.

1 Timothy 3:2 speaks to this: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife

1 Timothy 3:7 does as well: Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I cannot read the Bible in the languages in which it was written, so I have to rely on commentaries to more fully understand meaning. From them, I understand that blameless doesn't mean perfect (as it does elsewhere in the Bible), it means that his conduct must be irreproachable. Divorce may not exclude a man from ministry, but the Bible is clear that it does exclude him from pastoring a local church. At least this must be so for God's local churches.

You also wrote this: "It's not where his heart lies." Tom's heart isn't the issue here. God's heart is. Being a pastor is something that God ordains, not men. His intent is what matters. The hearts of men change all the time. God doesn't change.

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

So, be careful. Are you doing what seems right to you or other men? Or are you doing what seems right to God? There is a huge difference.

Gary Petersen

How great it is to see someone come to life again after a difficult and demeaning experience. Thanks for sharing this. And to echo another writer above, Tom could still be a minister in another denomination, if he chose. Disciples or UMC or Presbyterians would all accept him as he is. He'd have to get credentialed, which would take time and money, and but he could still fulfill his vocation.

I'm glad to hear that Tom is doing better, but I'll also admit that my first thought was for you, Gordon. I find it so very cool that you care this much about him.

(And I think it's a sad statement about my experience with churches that I find that such an exceptional thing. I have met other ministers who truly cared, but they were the exception rather than the rule.)

Props to RLP for that elopquent (and fierce) response to Gary. I've kept coming back here as my husband left evangelical ministry in part because I sense Gordon's heart:

He's a true pastor, determined to defend God's sheep from the lions and wolves that would like to tear them limb from limb. How sad that those lions and wolves so often lie within their own churches and faith communities. (Gordon, I think you're more aggressive when you're defending someone else than when you're defending yourself from these types. That shows us something beautiful about your heart.)

Gary, you're not going to make a difference here with these types of posts. Go back to your own church and keep victimizing your family members with your limited interpretations of Scripture. They'll be led, limping, to horrible people like us, and we'll give them love and space to help them rebuild and remake their lives into something beautiful that God will delight in.

(And you probably will think that we're all heretics. Tragic.)

We Episcopalians have escalated poor Gary's problems to several higher planes!

I am constantly reminded of the picture of the fundy preacher holding his plate of peel 'n eat shrimp, decked out in his polyester blend suit, condemning gays.

Where we are today is a gazillion cultural miles from first century Palestine or Greece or Turkey. Jesus' "new" command to love one another as he has loved us applies to tax-collectors, prostitutes, and fundamentalists alike. If Paul is the author of the letter to Timothy (not certain), we must remember that many of Paul's letters, like the creeds from the various ecumenical councils (e.g., Nicea), were written to correct and bound observed behaviors in a specific place at a specific time.

We have taken this pitiful handful of Pauline and pseudo-Pauline correspondence, handed down from our spiritual past, as somehow equal to the gospels. They may be of one Canon, but their subject, it seems to me, goes far deeper into the nitty-gritty (especially about church stuff) than it does into the intellectual regions that Jesus traversed.

When we are feeling as if it's time to correct one of our sisters or brothers, we need to ask if we are loving her or him as Jesus has loved us. Once that test has passed, we've got our license to act as Jesus would have us.

Tom is blessed to have such a place to heal.

May the "Gary Petersen's" of the "church" world have their heart broken by the things that break the heart of God.

Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

Way to go Tom and way to go rlp...I get a good feeling from this. I hope it's something that will be sustaining. There is potential for a lot of down times, naturally. Life can be so beautiful and so hard all in the same breath.

It is always a testament of God when someone like Tom comes along and the institution turns them away for one reason or another. Which speaks volumes of the presence of Christ in their actions. But you know Tom has returned and from the picture looks like he's soaring ... because he has You and Your faithful in his life, which speaks volumes of the presence of Christ in Your midst. Greatful for all things we pray for Tom's life and his continued success.

Institution is just that an Institution, and who wants to be in an institution? You don't need a building to find God, but it helps when it is raining outside, like it has been storming here. What a great story of faith and perseverance... God does provide when we get out of the way and let him provide.

Cheers
Jeremy

Great thoughts, Gordon. I have such a person in my church. Not quite as bad an experience, but he has a very simple approach to life and church that some may not understand.

Peace.

www.zzpuck.notlong.com

What is it...which divorcees in the Ministry? I am woman, I worked for a State Baptist Convention and you would have thought I was branded with a Scarlet D on my chest when I divorced. Who else can reach people in this situation better than one who has walked the same path? How affective can a pastor be advising a divorcee unless the pastor understands the pain! URRRRGGGHHHH!!!! Divorced Ministers have their place and God can still use them. It angers me! You go Tom! Oh, and welcome back! Cenotez.livejournal.com

Oh and the irony of it all...How can a convict find Christ in jail, come out of prison, start an evangelistic ministry and be accepted, yet a divorcee can barely get in a door at church? I has happened! Cenotez

Back up, I am about to go witch-burning midieval on your ass. Gordon et al, good points. Glad you got them off your chest. Gary's ill informed diatribe was hardly worth the words, but I understand the sentiment. Gary...seriously, get out. Go. Don't come back even if Gordon invited you to respond with your homework on Bishops and wives. Tom took some serious licks this past year and the one before that. None of them were his doing. I am infinitely grateful that the God of grace who sent him our way allowed me to befriend him and allowed me to learn from him. I count it a priviledge and an honor to know him. I love him as deeply as anyone I know. But all that love and learning and friendship was not worth one minute of the pain he has endured. Don't even get me started on his kids. So go, Gary, before we are forced to see your shriveled little feet sticking out from under some house in Munchkinland. Tom is off limits for spells and incantations. Cynthia

yey for tom! hahahahaha! i remember the 'superball theology' post because of this Ü

Some Christians have a strange idea of what loving one another means.

The Church is full of people like Tom who have been treated harshly by those who say they follow the God who is Love. May they all find truly loving Christian fellowship just as Tom has found in your church, Gordon, and may such love encourage them to fulfill their God-given potential, whatever that may be.

I have a theory - see if it makes sense to anyone here.

Too often, we've bought into an idea that because God is holy he cannot stand the sinful. Partly this idea comes from the bible - only the best was good enough for the rituals. But mostly it is just made-up rubbish.

God did not demand that Noah was holy before he would use him. Yes, he was the most righteous man on the earth, but he still managed to get drunk and naked (funny how that bit was never spoken about in sunday school).

Jonah said buggrit and ran away. God didn't abandon him for his great sinful attitude. He just turned old Jonah around and told him to get on with it.

Or think of Paul. Hardly a person of great and holy stature.

Think of the contrast between Jesus and the Pharisees. The pharisees made everything into a spiritual issue down to how you cut your hair and how many grains of salt you put on your chips. Jesus in contrast made a spiritual issue out of everything - ordinary stuff like mud, phlegm, grains of sand, ears of wheat, weddings and parties. Whilst some want to condemn and push-out, I'm convinced that God is actually in the business of taking and redeeming.

Lucky, lucky church to have a guy like Tom around. I have seen some wedding photos in my time, but that takes the cake. It makes a heart glad.

My former minister has a wonderful expression: "Our thoughts are not God's thoughts, even on our best days." My hope is that those who are living narrow lives deciding how everyone else is falling short might taste a little freedom and joy. Who knows, they might even end up making peace signs from the back row.

For scripture, why not go with the Psalmist and cite how ordination is of God and not of man with Psalms 110:4

The Lord has sworn, and will not repent, that you are a priest ever after in the order of Melchizedek.

Then go into the later explanation of this in the Epistle to Hebrews chapter seven where God declares true priesthood to be without father or mother, without beginning or end. When God has sworn and will not repent that one is ordained into his ministry then that ministry is to be everlasting. If God does not foresake or turn back God's desire then how can man?

That is great for Tom. You know, your story about him is the first post I ever read here. Incredible. I am glad to see God at work in and through him.

Peace and all good things to you, sir.

Not anonymous: That was me, Tripp...the AngloBaptist.

Gary...seriously, get out. Go. Don't come back even if Gordon invited you to respond with your homework on Bishops and wives

////I have always cherished the superball essay and it's a happy feeling to know that Tom is doing better. And I loathed the sanctamonious crap that his church dealt out. No excuse. But I don't know if I like the "get out" message either. Anger. Yes. But banishment?
lg

"...Tom doesn't put up with church shit anymore." Yeah Tom!!!!

HMMM...Gary is probably long-gone by now, rear-end singed and smoking from all the love and grace being flung around....

I'm getting on the band wagon late but took a few days off from blogs. I rarely comment here but thank you for this post Gordon. I'm sending the link to one of my best friends who had a similar experience- he was fired from his position as music minister in a non-denominational Baptist church when his wife decided she had made a mistake and should have married "the other guy." In a vicious attempt to make herself look like the victim she loudly expressed her suspicions that her husband was gay because of a few relationships he had with several gay men through a ministry in the area. The leadership refused to listen to anything he had to say and kicked him out in a public and shameful way. A year later, serving in another church for just three months and the lead pastor from his former church called to tell this new church that he was guy and he was fired again. No church community around him while he grieved his loss and deep betrayal, struggled with bitterness and tried to reconcile God's call in his life with what had happened. It's been three years but the wounds have not yet healed all the way. Just this morning we were chatting and he was questioning if this would forever stand in the way of following God's call in his life. I will share this post with him, thank you. For me, with a very different "kicked-out" story it is a reminder that God still communicates love and grace through people even when people are inclined to do just the opposite. Praise God for the healing and restoration He has worked in Tom's life through you, you and Tom are both truly blessed.

Jessica http://martin-weberchronicles.blogspot.com/

You and Tom are gradually restoring my faith in organized religion. Thank you for the wonderful testimony.

Hallelujah. Thank God for restoration and second chances and third and fourth and and and...

I know this comment is now out of date, but I have been out of pocket for a week and just got back online.

First, Amen to all who are not Gary. I am divorced, remarried and called to the ministry. I just graduated from a school full of Garys and transfered my credits to a moderate school down the street to finish my B.A. I went to orientation today and talked with beautiful Christians who did not judge me, were encouraging, and respected me. It was the most wonderful feeling in the world after living for two years with a bunch of Fundamentalist.

Gordon, I may have said this to you in an email or in a comment, but I will say it again even if I have. You helped me begin my understanding of who I am as a Christian and as a minister. Your writing was what gave me my first "aha" moment that caused me to think that maybe I was being taken for a ride by guys like Gary.

People like Tom are really blessed to have friends like you as well as everyone there at the church. Please convey to Tom my deepest respect for facing his hurt head on and continuing his pursuit of God's work in his life. Guys like Tom are heros to guys like me.

Another late comment:

I propose a small edit to the original post in response to Gary's original comment, as follows.

Instead of "they must do church in a way that seems right to them", substitute "they must do church as God calls them to do church".

I have no intention of getting embroiled in debates about divorce, or worse yet the trap of "judgement." I find both very unproductive and unflattering for all concerned.

I will take issue with some small points. Amy and I have journeyed closely with "Tom" during this time, which has been far more difficult than RLP has revealed here. We watched Tom when he could barely stand during our time of worshipping God with song, we have done our best to ease his struggles...and we too have watched him grow.

You say Tom is back as if his journey of healing is complete. I say Tom is "coming" back. I personally believe he has more healing to do, and I look forward to walking with him during this continuing season.

I also hope you are wrong when you say Tom is, "a man who will never again take religious stuff too seriously..." Personally I don't believe that's a mark of a healed minister...nor of a devout Christian. I suspect you mean Tom will never again take people, flawed "religious" people, and their distorted beliefs so seriously. Although right now I agree, Tom does not take a lot of religious stuff too seriously...I pray one day he will.

Having gone through a divorce, and felt the profound personal disappointment with myself and others - a period of my life which didn't come anywhere near the horrific, life-shattering, deep wounds Tom endured - I can tell you that healing...true healing...is a very long...very complicated process. I might suggest you brace yourself to be suprised, if not astonished, by the twists and turns it takes. What today seems impossible to even fathom may yet wriggle its way into reality.

I personally believe restoration from such intense personal and theological heartbreak as Tom has lived through requires God's time...and God's hand.

Plese don't mistake what I say...Amy and I certainly join you in rejoicing for Tom, and look forward to continuing the journey with him and our small community of believers.

I do heartily agree that Tom is indeed back... but I suspect his path of healing his relationship with God may extend far beyond our wildest dreams.

Such is the nature of the God I have come to know.

love,

Michael aka "Pepe"

You know, I just hope Tom takes this BS that happened to him and makes it work... He can use it. He can be a better preacher than ever before, not because of cynicism, but because of knowledge and experience. I say go for it Tom. Ministry isn't placed on one's heart for no reason.

By the way, from a photography perspective, that picture is amazingly well done. It captures a moment in time with near perfection. Wonderful.

I have read some of the comments on this website..I am so glad you are here Tom..Thank God for you..I am a preachers wife the second time..My first husband was a pastorand we were married for 27 years but I had to get out of it because of abuse, neglectand porn..I felt bad getting a divorce but I knew I could not continue on in that lifestyle..I am married again and have been almost 14 years now and my present husband was called into the ministry 9 years ago.He is divorced also..God forgives but man never forgives it seems..We have went on trial sermons but was rejected due to the fact we are divorced..Please reply Barb

Fantastic, Gordon.

At least one Baptist church in Texas is buzzing about the exchange with Gary. Thanks for thundering at noon the words that many are afraid to whisper at midnight.

RLP you are a loving fool. "Tom" is a fornicator, a drug abuser, and a regular boozer at local bars. He's had "affairs" with members of your church...married members.

I know this for a fact.

You may love him but he's fooling you and taking your church for a ride, straight to Hell.

Don't let your love blind you. Ask "your friend" for some accountability...see if he's honest.

-Harmed by the light