Dear RLP

November 24, 2006 - 5:23pm

Dear RLP,

I've often wondered, since you're an unusual sort of Baptist, what your thoughts are on "progressive" (for lack of a better word) Christianity.  I've just finished The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur and I have been reading a lot of books by John Spong, Marcus Borg and the like.  I think I would have left the church forever if not for the insights of some of the authors. 

All the best,

Tina

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Dear Tina,

Much of my life has been spent trying to find a balance between progressive, or liberal Christian ideas and the conservative, evangelical Christianity of my youth. That’s probably why I’m still a Baptist. The Baptist community is broad and diverse.

I think The Church needs the full spectrum of her theology. Look, when it comes to God, our language isn’t going to cut it anyway. How descriptive can we be of a being that is utterly beyond our comprehension? The language of conservative Christianity speaks to many people. I appreciate that. Hell, I love it. It brings me to tears.

On the other hand, liberal or progressive Christianity speaks to others, myself included. There was a time when liberal theology came to my rescue. It kept me in the game, you might say, while I worked things out for myself. It also made me intellectually proud, and that is a dangerous thing. Pride, in all of its many forms, is truly a spiritual killer.

Were we to be given a glimpse of the true nature of God, I wonder if our theological differences would be vaporized in that blinding moment of enlightenment. We might come away from that experience laughing at words like liberal, conservative, doctrine, and theology.

But whether you use conservative or liberal theological language, the central issue of our faith – as I see it – is finding a passion for the life and teachings of Christ and giving yourself to Him. Becoming a disciple, as we say, and by that I mean trying to live a Christ-like life. The details of your theology are far less important than that commitment.

Trying to live as Jesus lived is a humbling experience. It tends to shatter the pride of the intellectual and subdue the dogmatism of the provincial. Christian living drives us to a place in the middle that we might call Grace.

Theology is nothing more than language. And as nice as language is, it cannot stand up to the beauty of a life given in the service of God and humanity.

Peace,

rlp

 

 

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 24, 2006 - 6:31pm.

Thank you Rlp,
Latley I have been trying to find a middle ground between liberal and conservative. This letter was just what I needed. I love to read theology books but I am often a little unsatisfied by what I read. I have been stuggling to reconcile liberal and conservative theology in my own life for some time, which has left me in a theological pickle. I find that taking the middle ground is hard because it requires a submission to mystery and admitting that you just dont have all of the answers. Your words have been helpful though and I agree with what you say, that theological language is not as important as giving your life to Christ (regardless of how you come to know him.) Thank you rlp and Tina, you have both been a big help.

p.s. Tina, have you ever read anything by Frederick Buechner? If you enjoy reading theology you may want to give him a try.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 27, 2006 - 3:29pm.

it helps me to remember journalist Dennis Covington's definition of mystery as "not the absence of meaning, but the presence of more meaning than we can comprehend." (from Salvation on Sand Mountain)

krm

Submitted by takemyhand on November 24, 2006 - 6:50pm.

Preacher,

Thank you for posting this. I really appreciate it more than you could know.

Peace to you, and to Tina.

Natalie

Submitted by Wondering Pastor on November 24, 2006 - 6:53pm.

Amen, RLP - it simply amazes me how we get so bound up in our arguments and debates on the nature of God when it's so obvious our understanding is so limited. My current place on the theological continuum is toward the liberal end but that position shifts from time to time. I absolutely agree the more important investment of our energy should be in the attempt to lead Christ like lives - no matter the difficulty or impossibility of that endeavor. What a better place this would be if we took Jesus' teachings to heart and lived them out as best we could, day in and day out. But that's not the easy way and too often we're all about easy.

Wondering Pastor

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 24, 2006 - 7:16pm.

Just brilliant. Feel love, be love. Love God, love your self, love your neighbour. That's the heart of all of our journeys, and, as usual, you find it, spot on.

Thank you so much for your words and insights, and for sharing them with the rest of us.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 24, 2006 - 9:00pm.

Perfect explanation! Cenotez

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 24, 2006 - 9:07pm.

Thanks for these comments. I find myself becoming more politically liberal and more theologically orthodox... it is hard to explain this in many ways and you've done a great job here. Thanks again.

Alex

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 24, 2006 - 10:39pm.

Humility and Grace

The entire essay spoke to me...but one piece in particular:

"Look, when it comes to God, our language isn’t going to cut it anyway. How descriptive can we be of a being that is utterly beyond our comprehension?"

I recently posted an article to my blog (read by ~25 folks) listing conclusions in the area of charismatic Christianity...particularly critical of behaviours like flailing and speaking in tongues. Most of the feedback was in agreement, but one person couragously challenged my opinion, in soft words.

This 'Dear RLP' seems to answer most of my questions for you. Still, I can't help but to wonder how you would directly address that area. I mean, I can't help cringing at the thought of bringing an unbeliever to a service that included those things, and not just because of how it may reflect upon me as a brother in Christ. Is that cringe of Satan?

Submitted by rlp on November 25, 2006 - 7:58am.

I guess I would say that my statement of The Church needing the full spectrum of theology does not mean that every expression of that theology is helpful, good, or even healthy. Snake handling Christians, in my opinion, have missed the mark completely and are not helpful to the Church universal.

When it comes to more pentecostal expressions of faith, they do nothing for me, and they are not appropriate for many. But I will hold a place in my mind that understands the nature of some communities speaks to those who are not like me.

That said, emotional kinds of spiritual expressions are VERY apt to get out of hand and overly emotional, just as intellectual expressions of spirituality are apt to become prideful.

Submitted by HelenAngel on November 24, 2006 - 10:50pm.

This post is just brilliant. It's also really hit me hard, especially today. I'm very far physically from my church family and have felt very 'disconnected' from God lately. Your words have spoken to my heart and reminded me to keep the faith, so to speak. =) I honestly cannot thank you enough.

Submitted by Keith on November 25, 2006 - 7:33am.

Sometimes when I read your thoughts on these kinds of subjects, I think you wouldn't be a Christian at all if it weren't for how you were raised. I think you could replace "liberal" and "conservative" with "Christian" and "non-Christian," and "The Church" with "the human race," and the core of the essay would be unharmed.

Were we to be given a glimpse of the true nature of God, I think our differences would be vaporized, and we would laugh.

For about two weeks. Then we'd start arguing over what we saw.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 25, 2006 - 8:34am.

Wow, I stumbled on your web page and it sure seems to be about the almighty $. Most of the top section of your page is made up of ways to put change in your pocket. Pitiful!

Submitted by rlp on November 25, 2006 - 12:36pm.

I make half of my living as a writer. I have children to feed - all of that. I make no apology for that. The bottom half of this blog will show you that 99% of what I write is available here for free.

Submitted by Mark Goodyear on November 29, 2006 - 4:56pm.

I have to defend Gordon on this. His defense of himself is entirely too humble.

So his blog is about the Almighty dollar, huh? What is your profession about? Do you work for free? Of course, you don't. You expect a pay check. I love my job, but I wouldn't work for free either.

RealLivePreacher is almost completely free. Gordon gives himself away here. He is no charlatan. He's no televangelist. He doesn't wear slick suits or broadcast himself on late night cable.

This site is a real ministry that offers real hope to real people.

If you don't like it, go away. But don't insult Gordon based on your superficial snap judgment.

Submitted by quasifictional on November 25, 2006 - 9:34am.

Good points. If we aren't striving toward Christ, no theology will save us. Even when it's correct.

Submitted by BlueLikeJazz on November 25, 2006 - 7:35pm.

I admittedly used to be a fundamental, die-hard right wing Republican. It was strange but I didn't realize that I was bending my spiritual beliefs around the party, instead of bending my political beliefs around my God.

I now believe that we should seek balance. Following the true letter of the Word, I've found that I now have attributes that would be considered both liberal and conservative.

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 26, 2006 - 10:30am.

"Christ is all" - St Paul

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 26, 2006 - 2:23pm.

Rlp, you've done it again. By what means did you receive so much wisdom?

I have myself been in the spiritual doldrums now for several years -- questioning God, his church, and our meager attempts to encapsulate him in our teachings and dogma. Your blog has been a light in my "dark night of the soul" these past 12 months or so. Now through your post I hear God speaking so clearly. I only pray that God continues to pour his wisdom out through you and others so that the whole church can finally grasp this message. "I would that you may all be one, even as the Father and I are one." -- Jesus

Submitted by Clueless on November 26, 2006 - 9:59pm.

After a lifetime of being active in the Church I find that I have lost interest, even as I struggle with personal crisis. None of it seems relevant any more. I wonder if that isn't how most unchurched people feel?

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 27, 2006 - 11:33am.

I found myself in a similar situation. I was going through a very difficult personal situation. I do not think my faith in God was shaken, but I hated to be around "church people" who seemed to think in idealistic terms and believe that there are easy answers to everything if you just pray and have faith.

I quit going to church for a while.

But worship is an important thing. My soul benefits from praising God among a congregation of believers. Eventually, I joined a different denomination where the focus was more on God's Holiness.

It became apparent to me that it is more important to be a good person than to be a person who believes all the correct teachings. That means doing what is right, not because I will benefit from it, but because God is Holy, and every human being is made in his image.

In this life, we will have troubles. It is a hard truth which is too often ignored by some Christians.

And here is the Miracle of Christmas. Our Holy God became one of us, and shared our temptation and suffering. He did this because, even though He is Holy, He is not unreachable. He reaches out to us. Even now. Even when we feel unable to reach out to Him.

Blessing and Peace,
Carol

Submitted by Anonymous User on November 30, 2006 - 10:50am.

I believe it is truly important to mention Jesus death and resurrection when talking about stripped down bare bones theology. Following in Jesus footsteps is just a byproduct of the Grace that has already been freely given to us. I hope that we are not divided on this fundamental element of Christianity. Im not trying to start a theological debate. Much love.

Tim

Submitted by Anonymous User on December 1, 2006 - 2:55am.

Wow - RLP
I have never visited your site before, and synchronicity was truly at work when I happened upon this post of yours.

I was raised as a progressive (though not quite universalist) Quaker. I no longer consider myself to be a member of the circle of friends, but the lessons of that faith will always be a part of me that I value deeply, and I have been reflecting upon them at length as of late.

I am wondering what your view point is on a literal interpratation of the bible as opposed to a metaphorical interpretation.

I thank you sincerely

Submitted by rlp on December 1, 2006 - 6:55am.

Here's my point of view.

First, there is no such Book as the Bible. We have a collection of 66 books, conveniently bundled together and called, "The Bible" The word Bible just means "books."

Some of these books are absolutely not meant literally. Others are historical, but reflecting the kind of history people had before there were complex written records of things. We forget sometimes how much history is dependant on writing and pictures. You probably wouldn't want to take those completely literally, but you'd be foolish to dismiss them as fables.

Some are poetry, others sermons, some letters, and some of them have a little bit of everything.

I say get to know these 66 sacred works. Until you can name them all and at least be able to give a summary of what each is about, you probably don't have the right to make broad statements about the collection.

My two cents.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 22, 2007 - 9:09pm.

Great stuff. I completely agree that sometimes we make too much of our differences and that really we are all trying to express with crayons, glue and paper this really huge thing...our faith...our god...our christ.

but i do think that conservatives and liberals both seem to have pretty different ideas about what it means to "Christ-like"...and that is where it is hard to stand and say that both are just approaching the same thing from different perspectives.

I grew up conservative where being like Christ meant no popular music, no open discussion about other faiths, no sex, no "fill in the blank"...in addition the theoglogy of my youth was fear based...fear of our culture...fear of the end of the world...fear of "liberals"...fear of "fill in the blank".

While we might say that these sorts of things are not really theology...they seem to be the logical outcome of someones theology.

my issue is that when I see christ, i see love, justice, fighting for the underdog, touching the untouchable, loving god and loving each other...but very little of this was ever part of my conservative experience...

so aren't liberal and conservative theology really resulting in two different things pratically?