A Deeper Look at My Retreat

February 13, 2007 - 12:24pm

Retreats are things that religious people - especially ministers - do sometimes. I went on a retreat last week. I wrote about the food, which was fun, but what has really been on my mind are the people I met, the conversations we had, and what happened to me in Georgia.

Everyone at the retreat was a Disciples of Christ minister in Georgia. Except me, of course. I'm a Texan and still proud of that. I'm a Baptist and not so proud of that, but okay with it.

I was the leader guy of the retreat, but you have to think about that concept loosely. These are people who lead retreats and preach and walk with people on their spiritual journeys all the time. You don't need to talk to people like this. You should get the conversation started and then join in. That's what I did, and it made it seem like I wasn't leading anything or anyone.

There is a certain collegiality among ministers when we get together, in part because we can have a hard time being ourselves at church. We have a tendency to become icons and symbols of the community. Many churches want an icon and many ministers get lost in that role. How you live in the role of preacher/pastor is an esoteric journey itself. There aren't many how-to manuals. You have learn things the hard way. When we get together, it's very relaxing. Suddenly the shepherds are all together in a flock, watching out for each other.

I became aware that something was happening inside me on the first night. I was experiencing a rush of joy and a slow creep of sadness. After the shattering events of the takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention by Falwellesque fundamentalists, many fringe Baptists like myself have felt rather alone. I'm aware of some ministers who are kindred spirits here in Texas, but we aren't organized well enough to get together regularly.

Disciples of Christ ministers come in many varieties, of course, but I find that as a whole they are more theologically open than Baptists. In truth, I fit better with these guys. However, I love the church I serve. I don't know if there are other Baptist churches that would have me, but I'm not looking to go anywhere, so that's not an issue at this time.

So what happened to me on the retreat? I think I could say it this way: I did not feel alone. I felt, instead, surrounded by ministers who are on the same journey. And even now that I'm home in Texas, I still don't feel alone. It helps just knowing that these people are out there.

To my new friends in Georgia: Thank you for making me welcome. It was so good to be with you.


This is a very cool bunch of ministers. Relaxed, open-minded, in love
with the journey, able to walk with you and not try to drag you along.
So many people have sent me emails telling me how badly they wish
they could find an authentic minister and a church that will bless their
journey and not shout them down. Take a look. Here they are.
If ONLY I could find a way to hook you up with them.

rlp

 

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 1:05pm.

Preacher,

I had the privlege of being in two classes with an SBC Navy chaplain last semester and came to believe that you really aren't alone in terms of theological struggles with your denomination. Kind of humbling to see that we all fumble around and stumble with what Jesus said and did and maybe no one ever will get it fully right but can we do anything but try? I believe God has mercy and grace even for the preachers and pastors and if the lowly tax collectors and thieves will inherit God's kingdom then maybe a small section will be give to us.

Submitted by rlp on February 13, 2007 - 1:14pm.

Sure, I know there are Baptist ministers everywhere that I would feel at home with. The thing is, after the shattering of our organizations, how do we find each other? The Disciples in Georgia know each other and have this yearly retreat. That's what I wish I had. I might have to start something myself.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 1:33pm.

I have been attending a Disciples of Christ seminary in the Midwest for this recent school year. Coming from a conservative "brotherhood" of Christian Churches/Churches of Christ, it is refreshing to be among individuals, who all desire to serve God the best they can, but are open to looking at issues, both worldly and theological in nature, from all sides before forming an opinion. Often times their opinions tend to be labeled as "liberal," as well as my own, but often times most people who throw around such pejorative labels don't really know what they mean. I have definitely grown as a result of the environment in which I find myself. It is very refreshing.

Dustin

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 1:52pm.

One of the great foes to the health of a Christian minister is isolation. It is an odd thing that while we minister with and among people (we wouldn't be good ministers if we didn't) and share our lives with them and for them, we are sometimes the loneliest people in the world.

Ministry sometimes makes me feel less than real because I always have to be "on." I'm always supposed to be happy and holy, calm and committed, and on top of this thing called life. I not only find Sundays at times, in the words of RLP, to be a "bitch," but Monday through Friday too.

To make mattes worse you can't even be yourself around certain ministers. Ministers can be some of the most judgmental people around, particularly of other ministers. Oh how arrogant we are - judging people by laws we ourselves struggle to keep.

This is one of the things that makes the pastor/preacher calling not only wonderful, but very difficult.

Scott

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 1:53pm.

My husband grew up in a Disciples of Christ church in Georgia, and I soon became a member after we married. I loved the church's "motto" ("Where everyone is welcome because God has welcomed everyone") and their practice of open communion. Talk about making you feel welcome - all that was missing was the red carpet.

Unfortunately, it is that open attitude that fuels it's detractors. We had several families join us for short periods only to leave because they felt we were too "liberal". One youth minister pointed out that it's a good stopping place for families who are healing from "church hurts", but, once healed, they need something more "conservative". I suppose it all has to do with where you are on your journey.

Personally, I agree with Dustin - the ability to look at issues from all sides is what really drew me in and I don't necessarily think of it as being liberal. (My great uncle Bobby got in trouble for ordaining women back in the 70s - I come from a long line of "radical" thinkers.) My problem now is that we have moved from Georgia and are having one heck of a time finding a church that matches the Disciples line of thinking. That's why I spend so much time cruising this blog - it gives me hope that we'll find another church like our home church here in SC, and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a Disciples of Christ church (although it would be nice).

AC

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 3:33pm.

As a former Baptist (now a Disciple, oddly enough), I think you surely could find like-minded ministers among all the disenfranchised of the SBC--you're part of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and I know there's the Alliance . . . . But I guess geographic issues are the hindrance? Maybe you should try forming a group of multi-denominational ministers who feel the way you do. That would be great!

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 5:51pm.

Great thoughts, RLP. There is nothing like the bond between fellow believers and workers in the Kingdom. I went to a rather large event (1500 pastors) in San Diego called the National Pastors Convention. I find many kindred spirits in places like these. Brian McLaren did the opening night's presentation. You can listen to the keynotes here:

http://tinyurl.com/2g3bhn

Peace.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 13, 2007 - 7:55pm.

As a Disciples Pastor, I do thank you for the kind words. We're not perfect, not all of us are progressive, and on one occasion I fled a DOC Church for a Baptist church because it was safer -- but that had to do with the pastor.

One person commented on the pros and cons of DOC openness. The real problem for many people is that a theology that offers freedom puts the onus on the individual to struggle with scripture. That can by scary, but if we teach how to handle scripture responsibly we can take away that fear!

Submitted by revsparker on February 13, 2007 - 8:26pm.

Time for a Pirate retreat!
Ahoy, Cap'n Gordy, come aboard...

Submitted by John Wesley on February 14, 2007 - 3:23pm.

Dear and Gentle Reverend Sparker,

I trust you do not mean the brigands that frequent the waters around Blackbeard's island. General Oglethorpe has set cannon from Fort Fredrica, lest they become enraged at our presence here in Georgia. They are said to be a bunch of true scalliwags.

My must humble apologies on the intrusion as what I now perceive as a private correspondence, but I earnestly and humbly hope you ascertain the concern behind my warning.

I remain God's most humble servant,

John Wesley

Submitted by hughman on February 13, 2007 - 11:59pm.

well. uh, you DID hook up with them! duh!

"leading" means many things. sometimes it's just being quiet and listening. it might mean letting someone hearing the lead within.

but that's just me.

Submitted by rlp on February 14, 2007 - 7:14am.

lol...."hook YOU up with them." You, as in the people who tell me they are looking for a cool church.

You're like me. Read too fast. Miss little words.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 9:29am.

Hey Preacher

If you were going to commence a hunt in the DFW area for a Church with that bent (DOC or DOCish) to hook up with, where would you start?

John Randolph

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 9:48am.

Some of the DOC congregations in the Dallas area list their websites here:

http://www.disciples.org/congregations/websites/index.asp

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 10:39am.

Thanks --JR

Submitted by rlp on February 15, 2007 - 4:24pm.

I don't know, man. If you find out, tell me.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 16, 2007 - 8:53am.

I work for (and was raised in) a United Church of Christ church, and when we have kids going to college in areas where there aren't UCC churches, we suggest that they look for a DOC church, as they're very similar. I'm pretty sure there's a UCC church in Dallas, but you could check on the UCC website - www.ucc.org.

Heather

Submitted by John Wesley on February 14, 2007 - 3:17pm.

I should like to offer my most humble salutations and felicitations on this festal day of St. Valentine. I have the highest regard for our community, the “Blogosphere” and wish we could make acquaintance under more auspicious circumstances as I am sure that these acquaintances may yet become a valuable and enriching friendship as we exhort and instruct each other to be conformed in the image of Christ.

The ideal of Christian Conferencing is one that is hard to accomplish, yet more difficult to live without. We must find an accountability group to be in relation with or else we will miss something at the very heart of being in the Body of Christ. I commend your attempts to find a class of people to be in conference with and I will pray mightily that God will, in God's own time assist you in this.

I remain God’s most humble servant,

John Wesley

Submitted by dcoltharp on February 14, 2007 - 4:44pm.

Hi,

As a newbie, I just wanted to join your general sentiments about retreats. I used to work for the Catholic Church -- not always an easy Church to be a member of! Retreats might be with a group of people, full of seminars and masses, or they might be 48 hours of solitude and silence. Either way, they were very centering; they helped me reacquaint myself with what I believe and find important, and, often, they helped me find others who did not merely practice their faith at the level of Sunday mass (and I'm not criticizing those folks) but who thought about their Church, challenged it when they felt it was necessary, and asked it to live up to its true mission.

Sometimes, in my more secular years, I have longed to have an excuse to go on a retreat, just for the time to think on these things.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 4:50pm.

RLP, can you find out if any of those Georgia ministers are near Augusta, GA? I'm looking to find a more progressive church and have come up empty thus far.

Thanks for any help you can offer. You can forward my address to the group and ask them to contact me: mike@powerserve.net

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 5:25pm.

Looks like the Anglicans/Episcopals are going to have a similar split, with the disorientations that follow. The whole thing is more discombobulating in a hierarchical church.

And, as usal, those who just go on about their business, and don't have time for church politics (that is, the vast majority) will be left out in the cold, while those politically active (in the politics of the church, that is) will have a really good bout of vindictiveness, guilt-imposition, finger-pointing and every other activity expressly forbidden by Jesus.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 5:26pm.

Sorry, forgot to log in again

Horseman Bree
NB, Canada

Submitted by hughman on February 14, 2007 - 8:15pm.

you added that "you" in!!! cheater!!

grrrrrr..

i have to read fast here because everyone comments so quickly and being at the end = less attention from you.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 14, 2007 - 9:09pm.

Sorry, but none of us were really near Augusta ... we DO have two congregations there one downtown and the other just outside of downtown proper ... good luck with your search ... I guess I am "progressive" but I am in the Athens church ... Mike you can contact me at pchandler@fccathens.org if you have any questions about either of those two congregations.

Patrick

Submitted by Wondering Pastor on February 15, 2007 - 1:11am.

I grew up in a Disciple church and now pastor a Disciple congregation. The Disciple tradition makes good sense to me and gives me a firm path to walk on the journey. I'm sure other traditions would do as well, but this is the one I know and love. It was good to read that you had a powerful experience with these Disciples - it sounds like you could be one of us; perhaps that's because we're all children of God?

Grace and Peace

Submitted by judge on February 17, 2007 - 4:24pm.

I too grew up in a Disciples church and now pastor one. I too like the tradition, but sometimes there are "pockets" of thought that really make me scratch my head. I'm sure this is the same in all other denominations, it's just that this one is all I know. I am currently enrolled in a "distance" seminary program from a Baptist school, and it's frustrating when some of my denominational "higher-up's" express concern that I'll get too....Baptist???

RLP, I've been reading here for a little over a year now and your writing and insight never fail to inspire. I've not been in this "pastor" business for very long (about 6 months), and I know I'm gushing, but there have been many times I've wished I could be a pastor like you.

Wondering Pastor -- I'm in Missouri...where you at??

judge

Submitted by Wondering Pastor on February 17, 2007 - 10:29pm.

Judge,
I'm living and working in S.W. Kansas. What is the name of the school you're doing your distance learning with - I need some of that.

Wondering Pastor

Submitted by judge on February 17, 2007 - 11:49pm.

Wondering Pastor,

I'm in S.W. Missouri, northeast of Springfield on I-44. The seminary I attend is Bethel, out of St. Paul, MN. The distance learning program is called InMinistry, and I would highly reccomend it. I'm about halfway through an MA in Transformantional Leadership. Bethel offers several other degree programs online. If I can answer any questions, just yell.

judge

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 15, 2007 - 5:20am.

Just a word about looking for a church. Sometimes the worship experience doesn't tell us all we want or need to know about a church. A young woman recently showed up at a weekday Bible study at our church. No one seemed to recognize her, so we asked:
"have you been visiting?" Her answer astonished me at the time, but really makes perfect sense. She said, "I no longer begin my search for a church in worship, but instead I visit their Bible studies and Sunday School classes; that's where I learn what a church is really like".

From personal experience, I can second her thoughts. Although when searching I've often started with worship, I've often had to visit 3 or 4 classes (in a larger church) before I found the one that "fit". Within a larger church, it's possibly to find small pockets of "progressive" Christians that can become a wonderful faith community. The worship experience doesn't always tell the whole story about a church and its folks.

A Georgia Disciple

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 15, 2007 - 9:48am.

Thanks RLP for giving voice to the wilderness wanderings of our baptist colleagues who cringe at the public persona given our faith practice by the too often publicly quoted Pharisaical "intelligentsia" that seem to dominate today's baptist life. We struggle with shepherds and flocks who seem to desire for "Baptist" to be the noun while "christian" is the adjective. Yes-there are some of us "little b" baptists that still think it is more important to be Christian than be confined to the ever shrinking box that once allowed diversity in the greater baptist family. The free church tradition often muzzles our progressive voice thus exacerbating our deepening isolation. Let us work together, fellow pilgrim, to make something happen in Texas to lessen our longings for fellowship with like minded wayfaring baptist (without the inferred political baggage that has accompanied efforts in the past.) Making this effort just might save my ministry.

Submitted by Anonymous User on February 16, 2007 - 6:37pm.

I think it's great that you and these ministers could cross denominational lines so easily and comfortably. There are far too few who are not about defending their piece of doctrinal turf.

Barry's Best 2007 - http://barrysbest.blogspot.com
The Price of Rice! - http://thepriceofrice.blogspot.com

Submitted by Anonymous User on October 5, 2007 - 10:54am.

Thanks for taking a few of us.
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